eagle scout??

[kcs_hiker]

 

my first exposure to this young man was several years ago when he was telling a group of first year scouts (at a merit badge university) that HE would never be associated with a scout troop that allowed n*&^%rs in it. I said something to him at the time...

 

my wife's first exposure to this young man was when she picked up our son from a campout (a separate commitment, he had to leave early) and he was telling a group of younger scouts how HE would treat a n&^%%*r b&^ch etc... My wife spoke to the scoutmaster about that.

 

the young man left our troop (not because he had been asked to) because he obviously was never going to make Eagle. Apparently he found someone somewhere to accept his flower garden project...

 

sorry it pisses me off (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[moosetracker]

It is sad to see this with any young person.

 

But scouting has an organization is sadly not in the position to teach this particular value of treating all people as equals. They can't state that thier predjudices are fine, but yours are not.

 

Treating all people as equals, is not something, I feel the Boys Scout program could help me teach my son, due to their views. It was something that had to be taught at home, (as other values that scouting could help to reinforce.).. They can teach at least to treat them respectfully, in passing.. So the verbal insults should have been redirected. But, they can't promote that scouts be accepting and inclusive and without predjudice. Because they can't walk the walk, so they can't talk the talk.

 

Now an individual SM or adult leader, may be able to instill these types of values, if they have them in their own personal lives.

 

Sadly this boy did not have these values taught at home.. Most probably his values were even fostered from his own family values. It is sad, because the world is changing these beliefs and his views will find him more and more people who are intolerant to him for them.

 

So can he have these poisonous beliefs and still be an Eagle Scout?.. Sadly yes.. Not one that many will respect though. Like you yourself.

[packsaddle]

So...do you think this puts some tarnish on the 'reputation' or 'aura' of the Eagle?

The alleged prejudice of this young man does not diminish the personal achievement and value of the rank for any other individual Eagle. Only they as individuals may do that to themselves.

My own achievement, many years ago as a young man, am not damaged by any action that this young man might decide to take. Such damage is only in the eyes of those who see a false aura surrounding Eagle, one that to me is merely an illusion in their minds.

 

I do agree regarding the lack of virtue of his alleged viewpoint. But if you let this kind of thing become attached to or affect a rank that is individually earned and individually lived, you are guilty of the same kind of association (albeit not as offensive) as he engages in.

[Basementdweller]

Got his picture taken for the paper and didn't even bother to wear his uniform or dress up a bit.

 

As pointed out, The Quality of Eagles varies from this clown to excellent.

 

A positive point of an Eagle mill the Troop leadership would have made sure he was in uniform.

 

 

Ya make you proud of the Eagles we are producing now.

 

 

 

[jtswestark]

my first exposure to this young man was several years ago

If you can find an a kid that either became or already was an Eagle that has never said or done anything that someone wouldnt find unacceptable at one time or another then you definitely have a unique brand of kids.

Ive had Scouts come to my unit that needed a fresh start. I wouldnt want to hear about the baggage from his prior leaders and their biases. We adults make mistakes. Boys make mistakes. Part of growing up is recognizing that and improving ourselves. Have you seen behavior from this Eagle recently to verify he hasnt grown? Instead you are frozen in time, getting all pissed off about something he did several years ago to the point you personally ridicule his person on a public forum.

Maybe you should do some reflecting on yourself: Let go of your grudges and be the larger person here.

 

A positive point of an Eagle mill the Troop leadership would have made sure he was in uniform.

Oh come on how are you going to do that? If this was a kid in your unit how are you going to maintain that kind of control? Who knows how this happened - there could be a million reasons this happened when it did and his uniform may not have been readily available.

It is so easy to sit up on high and point the finger at another Eagle Mill.

 

I would request the moderators remove this thread.(This message has been edited by jtswestark)

[Oak Tree]

It is so easy to sit up on high and point the finger at another Eagle Mill.

 

I think you missed the point here. An Eagle Mill troop tends to be adult led and follows those things that adults think of as important, and that very commonly includes a strong emphasis on uniforming.

 

The poster was saying that the Eagle Mill Scout would look better - that's why he stated it as a positive for Eagle mills.

 

Still, as to your greater point that it's easy to point fingers, yes, it is. There are all kinds of people who get Eagle - the thing they have in common is that they have persevered through the program. They may have done many things wrong - I definitely wouldn't want every Eagle to have everyone post anything that they had seen him do wrong.

[LeCastor]

I agree with you all that we can't draw negative conclusions about the rank of Eagle based on the actions of certain Scouts who have earned that rank. Personally, I know of at least two Eagles who never showed Scout Spirit or leadership qualities; in fact, one of them (I hear) went to prison. But I have also known (and currently know) countless Eagles who are fine, up-standing citizens.

 

As for this particular Scout, not knowing him, I can't and won't caste judgement on him. But basementdweller hits the nail on the head, so to speak, when pointing out that the Scout didn't even bother to wear his field uniform.

 

The recent thread on "Eagle mills" also got me thinking about the first two Eagles I mentioned above. For a time, I lost hope in the ideals of the Eagle Scout. But in the past 4 months I have seen the actions and service provided by Eagles through our local OA lodge. At first, I though, 'geez, this council has way too many Eagles.' But then I realized that they were dedicated, hard-working Scouts and young men.

 

Since Eagle is our highest rank, we tend to put a tremendous weight on its significance. This is only natural. However, as we've discussed, from Troop to Troop, it is very hard to keep things as stringent as some would like. So, kcs_hiker, since you know this young man and have seen his influence on younger Scouts, I can totally see why you would be angered by his receiving our highest rank.

 

However, please don't lose hope like I did so many years ago! There are plenty of quality Eagles out there who deserve the recognition they've been given.

[jtswestark]

I think you missed the point here.

Yes, you are right, I did miss it.

I guess 'I' was still pissed about the OP and it clouded my reading.

Apologies to Basement.

[Basementdweller]

Thank you Oak and no offense taken stark.

 

I think what happens is.......The Eagles that are Eagles to their very core go unnoticed. They serve typically with out complaint or the spot light. Cheerful and Unselfish service and do not self promote.

 

We get scouts like this young man who will beat his chest and shout I am an Eagle respect me. Get his state senator to recognize him, get his picture in the paper, on the local news.

 

None the less, he is an Eagle no matter how poor in Character and judgement he is.

 

 

 

[Papadaddy]

This brings to mind a recent current event where a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy was arrested and convicted for some offense. The comments from his community were "he might be an E-7, but he's no Chief".

 

Same here. He may have been awarded merit badges and an Eagle badge...but that doesn't mean he's an "Eagle Scout". In his heart, he knows what he is.

[Engineer61]

"The alleged prejudice of this young man does not diminish the personal achievement and value of the rank for any other individual Eagle."

 

Of course it tarnishes the image, but I think that the oxidation is likely limited to those in near contact with a Scout that behaves in a prejudicial way. Anytime a group is identified with a crime, some of damage is transferred to the group.

 

I think the fact is that in our society, no one, whether they have a Scouting background or not *wants* to consider Scouting and especially Eagle's to be anything less than upstanding. There are plenty of counter examples and most appear to have some pathway to racial or social prejudice.

 

Now, if said Scout were to go out and commit a hate motivated crime and somehow involve Scouting or his Eagle rank, then you might have a larger area of tarnish to deal with.

 

 

[packsaddle]

"Anytime a group is identified with a crime, some of damage is transferred to the group."

I guess it is sadly true that prejudice is inevitable. The irony is that anyone who transfers the lack of virtue of one person's words or act of prejudice to a group...is also employing the same thinking error.

[BadenP]

Too bad the kid never received the proper interaction with troop leaders and counseling professionals that might have turned him around. I have a former tough as* kid like that in my crew currently and he said something similiar to an African American girl in the crew, who happens to be a black belt in karate. She gave him one chance to apologize which he refused to do, so she gave him an impromptu introduction to karate. As he was picking himself off the floor the boy apologized over and over again to her and the rest of the crew and to this day has never uttered another prejudicial word. That young lady is the current crew president and that boy is now a crew VP and the two of them have become good friends.

 

I also gave him a few counseling sessions along the way to help him see how counterproductive and potentially harmful those kind of prejudicial attitudes can be to others, and to his own well being. But, it is amazing that sometimes it just takes a good old fashion as* whooping by a petite young lady to give a hardnose a whole new perspective on things.

[Eamonn]

On 11/9/2009

You posted:

"Adult leaders have their own campfire some 20 yards away from the boys campfire. SM and ASM start telling jokes and stories... homophobic and racist. I get up and go for a walk... come back, and now they're bragging about how much ammunition they've got stored (some 25,000 rounds). That goes on for a bit, then it's back to the Michael Jackson/Obama jokes."

Then you wonder where a Lad picks up this kind of stuff?

 

I think it's very unfair and very un Scout like for anyone to post the name and a photo of a Lad, when they haven't anything nice to say about him.

In my book this is way out of line.

If other forum members agree I'd be more than happy to close this thread.

Please PM me or post your thoughts.

 

Eamonn.

[fred8033]

Yes. Posting the name and image of a scout and making bad comments about him is inappropriate. But before closing, please remove the link that identifies the scout.(This message has been edited by fred8033)