Summer Camp MB mill - as usual

[TAHAWK]

At one camp, to top off the "lecture" passing of requirements, the overnighter was cancelled due to rain (NOT a storm), but all candidates were given credit for "passing" that requirement as well. By "all" I mean everyone on the list, including the Scout who had stopped attending the lectures on Wednesday to switch to another MB (for which he had a partial). (The same camp gave Pioneering to a Scout who literally could not tie a single knot or lashing required for that MB and had no idea that a "project" was required.)

 

A PM points out that a number of camps deny they are MB mills - in identical language.

[allangr1024]

As I recall, in the late 1970's or early 1980's, a scout found a plant that looked like the drawing in the handbook, made a meal of it, and got poisoned. The BSA had to axe the requirement from the program because the plant in question was hard to identify as poisonous, and a liability issue arose. I remember making a stew out of roots and plants when I was a boy, and I hate to see this kind of stuff happen. It is a sign of the times.

 

Many will rage against the BSA as cowards, but I also remember the wave of court cases the BSA faced over scoutmasters who molested their scouts. The BSA was almost sued out of existence, and had to take legal steps to keep from disappearing from the American scene. The result is the 2 deep leadership policy we follow. The rest of the odious policies we carry with us stem from the same source. The lawyers and the suit-happy public out there will try to steal everything not bolted down. (and these policies are the bolts.) It is a sign of the times.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

I would think many a boy would think the Wilderness Survival MB as currently required disappointing. They watch Survivorman and Bear Grylls on Cable (heck even my kids have --and we don't even HAVE cable.) While survival training requires a lot of learning the MB is too much like a school class.

 

If you want to do it right, show them edible, distilling water, how to catch critters (even if you don't) you have to ADD a lot of extra material.

 

We had a Wilderness Survival MB campout and had boys trying to tote 30 lbs of gear with them --they did not see the conflict. We do not use the book at all. At least the survival kit leads to discussion and demonstration.

 

We had the boys show us 3 ways to make fire without matches or lighter. We got steel wool and battery, magnifier, flint and steel, and a couple brave souls with a wood drill.

 

The first aid parts got better when we had older scouts and adults act as victims for diagnosis. We also had a few real cases of dehydration and sun burn so they could real practice.

 

One year we had a boy come with just his hatchet (most have read the book by Gary Paulson). Liked his spirit.

 

Seems to me, done right, this is one of those that would really attract boys to scouts!

 

 

[TAHAWK]

As I noted, "wilderness survival" today is generally survive until rescued. What was BSA Wilderness Survival for the first decade or so is "Bushcraft."

 

Really, how many Scouts, in a survival situation, are going to make clothes from hides, tools from stone, fire-by-friction, boil water in bark, and trap enough food to survive? Animals optimized as hunters still starve. Flint is found in a single location in all of Ohio. Few edible plants supply calories. Ohio's No. 1 expert on mushrooms almost killed himself by making a mistake in ID'ing a fungus. Trappers set dozens and dozens of traps and still sometimes come up empty.

 

"Modern survival" is more realistic, and teaches a mental approach that can be applied to any crisis. (No. Not STOP = fire, ready aim) That, of course, assumes learning is actually going on vs the MB mill approach.

[wjturner]

Thanks, allangr1024. To paraphrase a friend of mine, if there's a rule, you know someone did something stupid to get it made.

[Kudu]

That is what "Blue Cards" are for: If your Troop has special knowledge in a subject, then offer it as special "High Adventure" outings. Why sign away permission to earn that Merit Badge elsewhere?

 

As for x-z, it is not "adding to the requirements" if you present Wilderness Survival (or any other subject) as Adventure rather than a Merit Badge.

 

Start small: Figure out which Scouts are the natural leaders and invite each one personally and individually to help you plan the first outing (even if they "already have the badge").

 

Exclude grossly immature ("annoying") Scouts until they get older.

 

Given that Bear Grylls is UK Chief Scout, building a successful "Troop Cult" should be a no-brainer.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

"Had to re-read that several times...why is it unwise to eat edible plants or wildlife? It is better to eat inedible? Or is LNT so entrenched in our thinking that it's better to sit under a tree and starve than nibble on some berries or trap a rabbit?"

 

So why is it unwise to eat edible plants or wildlife? Euell Gibbons, one of the most famous scroungers of edible plants, almost killed himself a number of times eating wild plants - and he was an expert.

 

Read the book Into the Wild by John Krakauer. It shows just how easy it is to mistake an edible plant with a poisonous plant, even when you have the identification book in front of you. Many wild plants need to be cleaned and cooked before they can be eaten. That takes time and energy that could be better used elsewhere.

 

There are also many adages out there that can lead you wrong - one I remember is if the berry is red, it's not safe to eat. Of course that eliminates wild strawberries and red raspberries, doesn't it? Another is if a berry is dark, it's safe to eat - but some of the nightshade berries that are toxic to humans are deep purple.

 

Now let's consider what "toxic" means. There are some plants that may poison and kill you outright, but most of them that will harm you take time to work (Into the Wild demonstrates this well). Many are plants that you can eat at home, get sick for a few days, but still make it, because you are at home getting proper care. But if you aren't at home, and eat that one plant you think is safe, or even that you know is safe but aren't used to eating, or eating meat that your body isn't used to (how many have actually eaten rabbit on a regular basis?), then get the runs for a few days, you're on the dehydration express train. So that survival food has now become a threat.

 

We can survive for 30 days without food and only 7 without water. In the majority of "wilderness survival" situations these days, rescue or self-rescue can be accomplished in less time than that. Instead of spending the energy needed to trap meat, or gather plants to eat, the time is better spent to getting fresh water, gathering wood to build fires to keep warm, building shelters when needed, and in some cases, finding one's way out. In most places in the continental US, if you find a river and follow it downstream, you will eventually run into civilization.

 

If you run into a patch of raspberries, or blackberries, or blueberries, or wild strawberries while making your way down stream, then I'd certainly partake - but I wouldn't go out of the way to find them. Heck, I'd rather be looking for an old apple orchard - that tells me I'm close to some kind of human habitation (Ol' Johnny didn't plant apple trees in the middle of places that didn't see settlement).

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Using that logic, T-hawk, we're going to have to change the requirements to Nuclear Science MB least some kid be put in charge of a nuclear power plant and cause a melt down.

 

99% of us will never be in a survival situation. Of the remaining 1%, their best course of action will be to hug a tree and blow their rescue whistle. I believe my boys learned that lesson very well from an episode of Barney before they started cubs. If practical WS training is the goal, let's just show the Barney episode.

 

But MBs aren't only about practical training. They should be fun, too. With the popularity of Gryllis, Survivorman, and the hippie dude who's always barefoot, (personally, I like the show with the hot British chick), WSMB need to be an opportunity to play out Man vs. Wild for a few days. Sure, it needs to include a heavy dose of practical skills and the talk about Death Angel mushrooms, but somewhere between Barney and Bear drinking his own pee, we need to be offering the boys the adventure we promised.

 

If during a week at summer camp we can't top what the guys can get sitting on the sofa watching Discovery Channel, it's time to wiz on the fire, call in the dogs and head on back to Bowlegs.

 

And by the way, anyone receiving this sort of program at summer camp should be all over the camp director AND your council's advancement chairman. Advancement committees are required to review and sign off on the MB programs at summer camp ensuring both qualified counselors and that the requirements are being met.

[Tampa Turtle]

Kudu,

 

Thanks for your comments. We used to "market" our Survivor campout as an "over the top" experience and it was pretty popular. For 1st year and above -young'uns at base camp. Than we (with the help of some military instructors LOL) made it into a classroom in the woods. Sure they checked off most of the MB requirements but it was not as fun. And oh how the boys complained, and complained.

 

They were right. I think we need to go back to the way we used to do it. Safety of course, but the boys need to have fun. When they are tested than they will take pride in it.

 

Only 1% may be in that situation? I remember talking to a new scout complaining on the 5 mile hike. He said why hike? We have cars, etc. I said what about all those New Yorkers on 9/11? Closed down the subway, roads, etc. Many had to walk 10-15 miles uptown and across the river to get home. May not need to do it often or even ever but it's nice to know you could if you had to. Isn't that part of being prepared?

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

Sorry mean't 1st class and above not 1st year. Participation in Survivor camp-out was used as an incentive to learn those basic outdoor skills.

[BadenP]

Twocub

 

"99% of us will never be in a wilderness survival situation". Actually TC your percentage is way too high. This summer so far in my area more than 12 day hikers to one local National Park have gotten seperated from their group and spent 3 or more days alone in the forest trying to survive, a half dozen more to that same park fell down a cliff in a remote area and were stranded until they were located almost a week later, half of them did not survive. How about those people driving through the southwestern deserts whose cars break down and there is no cell service in the area? Or anyone out in a remote isolated area who gets stranded? Do you want to bet that those people wished they had some wilderness survival training under their belt then.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Seems to me, done right, this is one of those that would really attract boys to scouts!

 

THAT IS A FACT!!!!! ( and yes I am yelling with this one

 

 

What started out as the troop adapting to a bad situation, all of the tents were mildewed and unservicable, turned into our yearly recruiting event for Webelos visiting the troop and going on a camp out: SURVIVAL CAMP OUT.

 

Ok I admit was not true wilderness survival, but it gave them a taste and the Webelos ate it up and wanted more.

 

They would be split up among the patrols, and each patrol had to create their own shelter. Prior to the camp out we taught the Webelos lashings so they could help make the shelters and other stuff. We had all types pf patrol shelters from the simple to the "condos," and we had permission to not follow LNT in the area we were in.

 

Now we did allow sleeping bags and packs, but they were limited to what they could bring. Cooking was utensilless cooking, i.e. foil cooking, brown bag cooking, burger in an onion, etc, but again not true survival. Just somethign out of the ordinary.

 

Now the parents and leaders would sleep in tents if they wanted. But some did do their own shelters, but others stayed in tents. I vividly remember one leader saying "H377 NO, I'm staying in my tent!" but after learning what he use to do, teach SERE, we found ourselves a new WS MBC that weekend.

 

[wjturner]

As someone who makes a living working with numbers, I love how people abuse them. As a friend of mine loves to say, 75% of all statistics are made up. :-) In the past few hours we have what appears to be a made-up statistic (Really? 99%?) being rebuked with numbers that are meaningless without more context (Twelve out of how many? That could be far above or below 1%. We cannot tell!). If you really want to convince someone with your numbers, try to put a little more work into it. As my wife says, figures never lie, but they will confess to anything if you torture them enough.

[eaglenjake]

To bring us back on topic of MB mills at summer camp I give you camping merit badge this past summer. 4th period of the day, over 70 boys in the class, of which we had 19 from our troop. Of those 19 I know only 4 that will complete the badge with the other 15 needing outing nights for completion. On check out I get 19 blue cards all marked "completed at camp". You've got to be kidding me??? We pointed out the glaring error to the director of Scoutcraft who seemed not to surprised or concerned for that matter, and followed up with a comment on the camp survey.

 

We took those 15 cards and made note of the partial and those boys will complete the badge when they have the nights and get signed off by a local MB counselor. I'm sorry, you might be able to overlook such an error in leather craft but not an Eagle required like camping.

 

MB pamphlets? I think I saw one boy in our troop that had them.

[Kudu]

So why do you let your Scouts take Camping Merit Badge at summer camp?