who can sit on a tenderfoot board of review?

[fred8033]

"spirit of the law" ... great comment. That's dead on right. The BOR is to celebrate and inspire the scout. As such, we want to get the BOR's done as soon as possible after the scout requests one. Plus, the reason for committee members is that the BOR is the quality control for the troop program (not for the scout). Parents and others can serve that function too even though it's not ideal.

 

Youth on a BOR? I'm fairly new (10 years), but I've never seen that mentioned in the ACPP. I know troops that include youth as members of their BORs. It's clearly different than how BSA "currently" documents the BOR process and requirements. Plus personally, I don't care for it. Like adults talk about BORs after-the-fact, scouts will gossip. I can see one scout making fun of another scout because of something said in a BOR. Any smart youth going for advancement would just shut down on any significant comments. I know the key reason is to work toward "youth led", but I have a hard time buying that when that's not how BSA describes it. Most importantly, the key person in the BOR is the scouting going for rank.

[bnelon44]

We are told to expect the new guidebook around September. Could be later if delayed again.

 

It has been a long time since Scouts were allowed to sit on boards of review.

[Eagle92]

I want to say 1989. I know the time requirements for T-2-1 were just removed and I sat on a BOR as ASPL for one Scout who had 3 BORs in one nite. And that was the last nite I sat on BORs as a youth.

 

 

What was kinda funny was that the troop hadn't learned that a BOR can cover multiple ranks so we had him in for Tenderfoot, then out for a second Scout,then in again for Second Class, then out for a third scout, then in again for First Class.

 

In reference to gossip, never did hear it happen. And the Scouts who sat on my BORS usually were able to open up the scout and get more out of him than the adults. Ditto when I sat on BORs as a youth. Also when a "challenging" Scout appeared at BORs,the youth BOR member usuallywas able to apply how situations that the youth was invovled in could have been handled more scout-like.

 

Like I said, it may be 22 years since Scouts were able to sit on BORs, but I liked it and think it should be available again.

[wjturner]

Thanks, Eagle92. I was wondering if that was when it happened. I couldn't remember if I sat in on one after that or not.

[qwazse]

fred8033: Like adults talk about BORs after-the-fact, scouts will gossip. I can see one scout making fun of another scout because of something said in a BOR. ...

 

Expect less of your boys and you will never see them deliver.

 

Never heard of scouts sitting on BORs myself. (Certainly did not happen in my troop.) But, I'm willing to take E92 and wjt's word that it worked for their troops. Counts a whole lot more than idle speculation.

 

I'm pretty sure a loose-lipped youth would not be welcome on the committee.

[Eagle92]

Way it worked in my troop, youth sat only on the T-2-1 BORs. They had to be a PL or member of the Leadership Corps, basically troop level officer like SPL, QM, Instructor, ect. So it was the older, more experienced guys sitting on the BORs.

[acco40]

As pointed out by many, this did not follow the ACP&P? Only troop committee members may sit on Boards of Review for Tenderfoot - Life.

 

Now, what you receive is what is typical on this forum, folks picking and choosing what BSA "rules" they feel are important and what they feel may be ignored "for the good of the boys."

 

For me, during summer camp, I try to make sure we have at least three committee members at least one day so we can do "field" BORs. However, I would not condone doing them with a parent (non-committee member).

 

My question, on the advancement report, for Boards of Review, two additional signatures are required, in addition to the board chair, plus it states directly on the form - All Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts ready for advancement must appear personally before a board of review composed of at least three members. An advancement report must

be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.

[Oak Tree]

An advancement report must be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.

 

This is indeed a direct quote from the Advancement Report.

 

However, it then goes on to allow for 32 lines of Scouts who are advancing. We generally turn in one of these per quarter, with a whole bunch of Scouts on it, who had all kinds of different people sitting on their boards review. Any three committee members typically sign it. From the description, you'd need a separate form for each set of three people who conducted boards of review.

 

Actually, I think I usually sign it as Scoutmaster and have two committee members sign it too. I note the form does say the Advisor can sign in a crew. At any rate, no one in the council office cares who signs it.

 

In our own troop, I'd just have the parent fill out an application and make it legal.

[bnelon44]

Some history

 

Hillcourt's 1936 Handbook for Scoutmasters says the BOR is made up of the troop committee.

 

In the 1947 Handbook for Scoutmasters it says the BOR consists of members of the troop committee and any adults they might ask to help them. (no Scouts)

 

In the 1959 Scoutmaster's Handbook it says the BOR shall consist of 3 adult male citizens, preferably from the troop committee.

 

And this was sent to me by a friend.

 

Scouts were allowed to be on BORs during what is considered by some as the dark days of scouting 72-89. The scouts were in "Troop Leader Councils" became PLCs in the 1990 HB

 

pg 75 1972 BSHB: "The Troop Leaders Council, which may have a committee member siting in as an adviser, will review you for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class. The Troop Committee will review you for Star, Life and Eagle."

 

pg 75 of the 1977 BSHB chaged the word from "may have" to "will have"

 

====

 

So we are likely to bump into this with units that have or had Scouters who were Scouts in the 70-80s.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[wjturner]

Thanks, bnelon, that's exactly what I was wondering. (Although I'm not quite old enough to have been a scout in the '70s!) Interestingly, I know our BORs for T-2-1 in the 80s never had an adult on them, and I never knew one of the older scouts to gossip about what happened at a BOR. The one being reviewed, sure, but not the reviewers.

[bnelon44]

Don't wait until once a quarter to hand in the advancement report. The Scouts deserve their rank and merit badges that they earned as soon as possible. It is the troop committee's responsiblity to make that happen.

 

Remember when you were a kid? Three months was an eternity!

 

The preferred way is to turn the form in right away and get the badge to the Scout at the next meeting. The card signifying the achievement can be given out at a court of honor in front of the parents.

 

This is a direct quote from the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, "Each time a Scout advances in rank, he should be recognized on two occasions. The first should occur as soon as possible after a Scout has been approved by a board of review and an Advancement Report has been filed with the council office -- preferably at the next unit meeting. This ceremony should be dignified but simple, involving not much more than presenting the Scout with his new badge of rank. The second occasion is a court of honor, a public ceremony to recognize Scouts for successful achievement and to describe the importance of the program."(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[bnelon44]

wjturner, If it was a successful experiment, we probably would still be doing it.

 

The major reason I can think of not to have a Scout on the board is so the Scout being reviewed can talk freely about his experience in the troop. And it is very possible he is having difficulties with the other Scouts.

[Oak Tree]

The Scouts deserve their rank and merit badges that they earned as soon as possible.

 

bnelon44, yes, we agree. We give the Scouts their merit badges and rank badges the day that they earn them. The advancement form is just used to refill our troop stores of rank badges.

[wjturner]

bnelon, I find your comment about a successful experiment funny! I am not so naive as to believe there is always a one-to-one correspondence between successful experiments and continued policies. However, I was also never arguing it was a successful experiment, only that in my very limited experience, it did not appear to have the particular disadvantages offered earlier against it in this forum, but then as I've seen someone say recently, all scouting is local. I think your argument here is much better than those about gossiping scouts. I think it is probably a far saner idea to have *all* BORs be staffed by committee members rather than change the composition after a few ranks.

[John-in-KC]

Does the Internet advancement module of ScoutNet even have a cross check function for names of the other two signatures of a BOR?

 

Lots of pole vaulting over mouse turds on this one...

 

I'd be a lot more interested that the BOR asked good, non re-testing the material questions