Archery Merit Badge

[JoeBob]

In the past we've qualified scouts using district equipment during Cub Scout Daycamp. With decent recurve bows, matched fiberglass arrows, and good target faces Boy Scouts could score the required 150 from 10 yards.

 

The new requirements are 170 points from 15 yards. None of our scouts who worked at it were able to score 150, much less 170, from the greater distance.

 

I'm curious to know how many scouts are getting qualified, and with what equipment? Hopefully with Boy Scout summer camps in full steam I'll get some quantitative responses.

 

Thanks,

JoeBob

 

[IM_Kathy]

none of our boys qualified this year. I wasn't aware of the changes as I'm not a MBC for it. Boys that qualified years ago said they don't think they would've qualified with new requirements. I don't know enough about archary to know what bows and what not we had at camp... considering the boys who did take the class were not boys that normally shoot bow that may make a difference. I know 2 boys are going to go to Bass Pro classes and see if they can finish the qualifying.

[CalicoPenn]

Well first, let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples.

 

There are 2 options:

 

Option 1:

 

Using a long bow or recurved bows, the requirement is to shoot 30 arrows in five-arrow ends at an 80-centimeter five color target at 15 yards and using the 10 scoring regions make a score of 150.

 

Option 2:

 

Using a compound bow, the requirement is similar but the end score must be 170.

 

If the MBC is requiring 170 points for a recurve bow or a long bow, the discrepancy should be politely pointed out as the requirement is 150 points.

 

Now beyond that, I think I would be looking at the equipment, specifically the draw weight of the bow. You mentioned using district equipment during Cub Scout Day Camp. My first assumption is that these bows have a limited draw weight (10 to 15 pounds?) so they can be used by Cub Scouts. Chances are pretty good that the bows just aren't capable of delivering any kind of power to enable a Boy Scout to hit a target with any kind of accuracy at 15 yards. Chances are good that most adults would have a problem with a low draw weight bow suitable for Cub Scouts to hit a target with any kind of accuracy at 15 yards. The Boy Scouts may need to have bows with a greater draw weight (20+?). The bows you have may have been good for 10 yards, but just aren't enough for 15 yards. I'd start there.

 

I'd be inclined to consider the bows at Boy Scout Camp as well - chances are they're using the same bows they've been usng for years and they probably need to be replaced.

 

 

 

 

[JoeBob]

Hey Calico,

 

Politely pointing out that different sources list different score minimums:

 

http://usscouts.org/mb/changes/mb019-11.asp

 

"2.Shooting 30 arrows in five-arrow ends at an 80-centimeter (32-inch) five-color target at 15 10 yards and using the 10 scoring regions, make a score of 150."

 

 

But Scouting.org says 170 with the recurve.

"2.Shooting 30 arrows in five-arrow ends at an 80-centimeter (32-inch) five-color target at 15 yards and using the 10 scoring regions, make a score of 170."

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-ARCH.aspx

 

Where should one go to determine which source is 'official' and to be followed?

 

 

Equipment - Our scouts were using a 25-30 pound bow. Plenty of pull for 15 yards:

 

http://www.fsdiscountarchery.com/indiantitanrecurvetargetbow.aspx

 

I've been shooting for a few years, and was challenged to score close to 150. I did not reach 170. If we added a flipper arrow rest, re-squared the nocking points, got better finger tabs, added a sight pin, and used aluminum arrows; 170 would be realistic.

 

Are councils going to invest in the added expense of upgrading and maintaining better equipment? Or are my shooters just weinies with no William Tell in our lineage?

 

 

What equipment is everyone using at Scout Camps?

 

 

[Nike]

I personally hate the red bow, would ban it from camp in favor of take-downs: though I think that if the bow is relatively new and been properly set up and cared for, the boys should be able to get close to 150 (average score of 5 pts per arrow) with a week's practice and coaching. 170 (average slightly less than 6 pts) is going to separate the premium wheat from the wheat.

 

I'm wondering why they uped the score requirement for non-compound bows. It's not like Archery is the gut Fingerprinting is.

[qwazse]

Didn't know about the point change. Son #2 took all of open program last week to meet reqs. (He didn't complete his Swimming partial from last year b/c of it!) I think he used the 20/35 red compounds.

 

Can't remember what my reqs were back in the day, but I remember practicing for a year at 20 yards with a wood 25# recurve and wood arrows (no arrow rest either). I don't think I took that bow to camp, but adapting to the 35# fiberglass recurves was a piece of cake after all the practice with that clunker. (In it's favor, the wood did have a smoother draw.)

[CalicoPenn]

JoeBob,

 

Interesting. I'd have to say the official BSA site is the one to follow but before doing so, I'd check out the printed version of the 2011 requirements first before following the online version. If they match, then it's 170. If not, I'd follow the printed version.

 

It's curious that they would up the change to 170 points for recurve bows and longbows but not up the points needed to score on the other methods (which are also lower than the alternative methods for the compound bows).

 

Joe - what is the pattern look like when the Scouts shoot these at 15 yards - are the arrows hitting in the lower target face or are they just spread all over the place? If your finding that your pattern is hitting in the lower portion of the target, then you need to adjust your aiming upwards a bit and there should be some improvement. It's going to take longer for an arrow on a 20 pound draw bow (assuming that the Scout will actually pull to the full 20 pounds) to get to the target than it will for an arrow shot from a 30 pound draw bow. The time may seem insignificant to us, but can be significant as far as aiming is involved.

 

And not meaning to be a noodge, but are you sure the bows being used are 60" bows and not 50" bows? I only ask because you mentioned using District equipment at a Cub Scout Day Camp and it just doesn't make sense that a Cub Scout Day Camp would be using bows that are 5 feet in length when your average Cub Scout is less than 5 foot tall. It would make much more sense for them to purchase 50 inch bows (4.16 feet in length) for Cub Scouts - and a 50-inch bow of this type generally has a maximum draw weight of about 20 pounds, which might not be enough to go 15 yards with any accuracy. And yep, the "red bow of death" comes in a 50" size too.

 

[JoeBob]

"red bow of death"

I love it!

 

We're fortunate to have 35 or so bows so that we can shift sizes up or down to accomodate the ages of the dens.

 

There are only three of the 25-30 # bows specifically on hand as a reward for the scout helpers and adults to use. We've got one mid-range 20-25 pounder as well.

 

As long as we're delving into equipment - the 'Goblin' is atrocious! They break if you look at them sideways. The 'Crusaders' hold up well for Webelos. Some of the light-weight 'Wizards' will break just lying on the ground in the sun, but other 'Wizards' have lasted through 5 seasons.

 

I wonder if the '170' is a typo?

 

And I really do want to know how camps are faring with the increased requirements. It'll be a shame if the archery merit badge becomes limited to those who can afford their own premium equipment.

[shortridge]

It should be instantly apparent that scouting.org is the official BSA website.

 

usscouts.org is a privately run site that's not always updated or current.

 

But when in doubt, spend a few bucks and pick up a copy of the Requirements book.

[Beavah]

Yah....interestin'.

 

I was tryin' to look up what da Camp Archery Association award levels are, as a comparison with what others do. For middle schoolers, I'm pretty sure CAA starts at 20 yards, with award levels beginning at 100pts and goin' on up from there. Seems like 170 at 15 yards wouldn't be too unreasonable for a lad who had really learned the skill. Problem is, as others have pointed out, camp equipment ain't always that well maintained or sized for individual boys, and some of it ...

 

B

[JoeBob]

What about the scouting.org site makes it 'instantly apparent' as the official website?

[shortridge]

Really? OK. Here goes.

 

>> The bottom of scouting.org contains this statement: "© 2011 Boy Scouts of America - All Rights Reserved." On some pages, the year is 2010, but that's minor.

 

>> The bottom of usscouts.org contains this statement: "USSSP is not affiliated with BSA or WOSM and does not speak on behalf of BSA or WOSM."

 

Aside from that, there are the huge differences in design, style and content between the two sites. USSSP looks like the amateur, volunteer-produced site that it is; Scouting.org has had some money put into it, with a professional look and feel.

 

There are tons of private sites out there with information that can sometimes be bad or outdated. Meritbadge.org is another. These sites can also provide a ton of resources and far more useful information than Scouting.org does. Use all of them, but if you're looking for the official word, it's best to go to the official source.

[JoeBob]

Shortridge -

 

I'm sorry dude, but the small faint grey text tacked onto the bottom of a six frame HTML page is 'instantly apparent' only to someone trying to defend a poorly written snap comment. Your tone got my courtesy bristles up. As to the look of the page, you like washed out light colored text? Is that easy for you to read? Do you find circular links entertaining in your search for information? 'Look' is a subjective judgement, but I think that the page you're looking at now as you read these words is more straight forward and easier to digest than the CSS used by scouting.org.

 

If it turns out that 170 as a minimum score for Archery MB as posted on the website scoutng.org is wrong, then that might lend itself to supporting your 'instantly apparent' judgement.

[dfolson]

As a Level 1 USA Archery (and NFAA) instructor and a registered MBC for Archery, I have been using the 2011 version of the book available in the Scout Shop. It lists many different scoring methods that qualify:

 

1.Do ONE of the following options:

Option A - Using a Recurve Bow or Longbow

F. Do ONE of the following:

1. Using a recurve or longbow and arrows with a finger release, shoot a single round of ONE of the following BSA, NAA,or NFAA rounds:

A. An NFAA field round of 14 targets and make a score of 60 points.

B. A BSA Scout field round of 14 targets and make a score of 80 points.

C. A Junior 900 round and make a score of 180 points.

D. A FITA/NAA indoor* round I and make a score of 80 points.

E. An NFAA indoor* round and make a score of 50 points.

2. Shooting 30 arrows in five-arrow ends at an 80-centimeter (32-inch) five-color target at 15 yards and using the 10 scoring regions, make a score of 150.

3. As a member of the NAA's Junior Olympic Development Program (JOAD), qualify as a Yeoman, Junior Bowman, and Bowman.

4. As a member of the NFAA's Junior Division, earn a Cub or Youth 100-score Progression patch.

 

Option B - Using a Compound Bow

F.Do ONE of the following:

1. Using a compound bow and arrows with a finger release, shoot a single round of ONE of the following BSA, NAA, or NFAA rounds:

A. An NFAA field round of 14 targets and make a score of 70 points.

B. A BSA Scout field round of 14 targets and make a score of 90 points.

C. A Junior 900 round and make a score of 200 points.

D. A FITA/NAA indoor* round I and make a score of 90 points.

E. An NFAA indoor* round and make a score of 60 points.

2. Shooting 30 arrows in five-arrow ends at an 80-centimeter (32-inch) five-color target at 15 yards and using the 10 scoring regions, make a score of 170.

3. As a member of the NAA's Junior Olympic Development Program (JOAD), qualify as a Yeoman, Junior Bowman, and Bowman.

4. As a member of the NFAA's Junior Division, earn a Cub or Youth 100-score Progression patch.

 

[dfolson]

In case you were curious, the Venturing requirements are even more difficult:

 

A. Recurve Bow

1. Indoor: Shoot 30 arrows at 18 meters on a 60-centimeter five color target. You must score 150 of a possible 300.

 

2. Outdoor: Shoot 30 arrows at 40 meters on a 122-centimeter five color target. You must score 200 of a possible 300.

 

OR

 

B. Compound Bow

1. Indoor: Shoot 30 arrows at 18 meters on a 40-centimeter five color target. You must score 150 of a possible 300.

2. Outdoor: Shoot 30 arrows at 40 meters on a 122-centimeter five color target. You must score 210 of a possible 300.