MB Counselor signing off work done prior to them being counselor

[cdroberts94]

This is a long complicated story ... scout starts working on a merit badge. Gets permission and dated blue card from the unit leader and does the 13 weeks of expenses and the rest of that requirement for Personal Management along with some other requirments. He writes it all out and saves it but never goes back and meets with the counselor so nothing is signed off on the blue card. The original counselor is no longer active with the troop, and now that the scout is older he has decided to continue the badge with another counselor. The new counselor is unsure if he is allowed to accept the data since it was done before he officially became a merit badge counselor. Scout is willing to start all over, but for the future we're wondering how to handle it. (Just so you know, the scout has been told by his parent that the lesson in all of this is to get things signed off and not just put them aside 'til he's older.)

 

Carole

[CalicoPenn]

Not that any of the other questions posed on the forum aren't great but this is a great question - and you'll likely get 20 different answers.

 

Here's my take, for what it's worth.

 

It's really up to the Merit Badge Counselor at this point. There is nothing that I know of in any official rules that say that he couldn't accept the work that was started under a previous Merit Badge Counselor. If those requirements had been signed off on a blue card, the BSA expects that a second MBC would accept them as done (for instance, a partial from a summer camp, or perhaps a partial because the previous MBC left town, or didn't re-up before the lad was finished). If that was the case, this would be much easier - they were done, an MBC signed off that they were done, and time to complete the rest of the requirements. A Scout can take as long as he wants to complete a merit badge (example - he can get a blue card for Basketry the day he becomes a Scout, complete requirement #1 and #2 the next day, put it aside, and complete requirement #3 the day before his 18th birthday and earn the badge).

 

In your case, you have a Scout that started the work under a different MBC, finished certain requirements, but never had the work signed off on and now wants to finish the work but the original MBC is no longer available. Can the Scout's new Merit Badge Counselor accept the old work, even if it wasn't signed off on and the MBC wasn't even an MBC at the time? I would say Yes.

 

But saying Yes doesn't mean I believe the MBC must accept it. As I said, the MBC gets to make that decision. If the MBC believes the Scout to be Trustworthy and had done the work as expected, then I don't see any reason why he shouldn't sign off. The BSA won't tell the MBC that s/he can't sign off on the work.

 

If I were the new MBC, I think I would give the Scout the benefit of the Scout Law, consider him Trustworthy, and sign off on the requirements that were completed. I'd make sure to ask questions to make sure the Scout understood the point of the requirement and perhaps has put some into practice since the original 13 weeks, and make sure he's knows his stuff, but I'd be inclined not to make the Scout start over on the 13 weeks if it doesn't seem like a blatant attempt to deceive (and based on your wording, it seems as if the Scout did do the requirements and people know he actually did them).

 

That being said, I also wouldn't fault the MBC if s/he did apologetically say the Scout would have to do the requirement over again.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

[Twocubdad]

Are you saying the Scout still has the work and can show it to the new counselor? If so, then I see no problem with the new counselor. If not, and he's just going on the Scout's word that he completed the requirments, then I'd say no.

 

It doesn't bother me that the Scout did the work prior to the new counselor registering. That's not the Scout's fault. And especially so since he was working with a counselor. Had the Scout NOT been working with the old counselor, I'm less excited about it, but I would say it's the new counselor's call. We generally try to discourage Scouts from starting a badge before meeting with the counselor. One purpose of the counselor is to work with the Scout to teach him the topic. It's not much of a learning experience if the Scout completes all the work, then just dumps a lot of paperwork on the counseor and says, here, sign this. Even if the badge is something simple, like a crafts badge, a counselor should be bringing something to the table.

[moosetracker]

As Calico states, I think it is up to the MBC..

 

For me, it would be odd if I didn't accept it.. Probably if the work was not done right I might have him do a redo.. Otherwise, I would probably pick up where he left off.

 

Admitedly I had a reason to sign off on a scouts blue card for a 3 month chart for family life that was done before I took it on as MBC. The original Counsilor accepted the scout (they even did have one meeting), he started and finished the 3 month chart and she refused to sign, because she felt he had to get the "start" date from her, and she didn't give it.. I looked at the date the MB was started and the date the 3 month chart was started. He had started it after the blue card was signed. The chart was done correctly.. I signed it, and he finished the MB with me.

 

What if a scout was close to done with a 3 month chart (or anything else) but before he gets to meet with the MBC, the MBC seriously gets ill or passes away?? Does the scout start over, what if he is down to the wire and close to his 18th birthday?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[dlearyous]

Although no longer active in the Troop, is the original Merit Badge Counselor still around? Has the scout tried to contact them?

[Beavah]

Yah, Carole, welcome!

 

You can tell the counselor it's just fine if he/she accepts the old work... if the counselor finds it acceptable of course. You can also tell your scout that it's OK if the new MB counselor does not accept his prior work. That's what happens when you procrastinate sometimes.

 

In the BSA there's really no such thing as a "partial" merit badge. It doesn't work like rank advancement, where different people are assigned by the Scoutmaster who can test boys on different skills, causing separate signoffs by different people.

 

A MB counseling session is a personal mentoring relationship with one "expert" in that one skill. Each MB counselor is expected by the BSA to verify him/herself that a boy has met all of the requirements. They may do that by taking old documentation from another counselor, or a phonecall from the old counselor, or even the word of the boy or another adult who was not a counselor but who saw the boy perform the skill. Or they may ask the boy questions to determine what he learned or make him demonstrate the skill again to them.

 

Personally, since the point in most cases is for the boy to have learned and for the boy to benefit from the relationship with the counselor, I think most counselors should work with a lad and expect him to demonstrate all of the skills of the badge, as the BSA suggests. But for "task" type requirements like the 90-day expense report, I think most counselors would accept a task that was done before the lad started the badge with them, unless the boy really didn't understand/do the task properly.

 

So yeh can tell the MBC that it's up to them, but that most counselors would work with the boy and accept prior work that was well done, and build from there.

 

Beavah

 

 

[ScoutNut]

>>"The new counselor is unsure if he is allowed to accept the data since it was done before he officially became a merit badge counselor."

[The Blancmange]

There's also this language in the BSA training:

The Scout telephones the merit badge counselor to make an appointment, and together they schedule a date and time for the Scout and his buddy to meet. The counselor suggests that the Scout bring the merit badge pamphlet, the Application for Merit Badge, and any work that he has started or accomplished, and that he prepare by reading over the requirements. [emphasis added].

http://scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TrainingModules/MeritBadgeCounselorInstructorsGuide.aspx

[dlearyous]

Interesting point Blancmange, thanks for sharing that. I believe most have skimmed over that. Does the BSA contridict itself elsewhere though? It's odd that so many seem to think work has to be done after a MB counselor is assigned.

 

[qwazse]

I think the intent here is that a scout may have gained an interest in a topic and started on some of the requirements (either out of ignorance or enthusiasm) before meeting the counselor. Then the boy should bring the stuff he started on, especially if it's good work that the counselor would have approved anyway.

 

Also, the original counselor may still be on the district's list even if he/she is no longer active with the troop. (Sometimes those rolls take years to delete.) I'd check with HQ and, if they'd still take a sign-off on any MB's started by him/her, let the original counselor know his/her standing regarding incomplete MB's.

 

In short, you probably have options. Do what makes the most sense for this boy.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Scout is willing to start all over, but for the future we're wondering how to handle it."

[JoeBob]

Does anyone else find it just a tad ironic that the scout failed to manage his personal affairs on the very merit badge designed to teach personal management??

[boomerscout]

lots of summer camp merit badges require some work being done before the Scout arrives at camp and meets the mbc for the first time.

As long as your Scout can still intelligently discuss what he did months ago, there is no reason why he can't get full credit.

[The Blancmange]

 

Does the BSA contridict itself elsewhere though? It's odd that so many seem to think work has to be done after a MB counselor is assigned.

While we could probably fill a multi-page thread with inconsistencies from other BSA publications, I don't believe this is one of those situations. I haven't seen anything that contradicts this. I think people are just reading in a requirement that isn't there.

The most common example that comes to mind is camping nights. As long as the counselor is satisfied that the count is correct and otherwise meet the requirements, it doesn't really matter when they were done. This is why I encourage our scouts to use the camping log in their handbooks. If the rule were otherwise, it would be best for every scout to obtain a camping blue card the day he signs up.

[cdroberts94]

I feel like I stir up a hornets nest every time I post here but I THANK YOU ALL for your very thoughtful feedback.

ScoutNut, What I meant by how to handle it in the future is what to advise a merit badge counselor who asks if he is allowed to sign off on a badge that was started before he became a counselor. Hes willing to do it but hes new to the process and doesnt want to do something that might create a problem down the road on an important Eagle merit badge. So he asked if he could and I thought maybe someone here would have a source he could go to for an answer.

 

We have had huge growth recently in our lower ranks and are fortunate to have a lot of new adults willing and eager to work with boys on these important badges. Now that YPT training is mandatory we have had to remove some counselors who did not follow through with keeping that training up to date. Others counselors choose to move on once their kids graduate and are no longer interested in being counselors. And as someone mentioned, sometimes they start things in camp and dont complete them until they get back (my son still has just one drawing to do for drafting which he did four years ago. Our troop didnt have a drafting counselor so he put it aside for later!)

 

And I will admit that our troop has been guilty at times of allowing and even encouraging a merit badge counselor to start a MB with a large group at a scout meeting. The scouts were then responsible for continuing the work and finishing up the badge with the counselor on an individual basis. That is what happened with this scout. He was young and enthusiastic, but then probably realized that the badge was a little much for someone his age and put it aside figuring he had lots of time. A more seasoned MB counselor may have had no problem looking over his work and taking it from there, but the new guy wants to make sure he doesnt make any mistakes.