Board of Review Question

[evmori]

If a Scout shows up for a BOR in flip flops and shorts and a tank top, he can! You can't refuse to hold a BOR or stop a BOR or cancel a BOR because the Scout isn't in uniform. Wearing his uniform to a BOR isn't required! Heck, you don't even have to own a uniform to be a member of the BSA!

[moosetracker]

evmori - Eagle92 already pointed out written policy that would make your statement incorrect..

 

http://www.bing.com/search?q=BSA+Advancement+Policies+%2333088&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC - Page 29.. 2nd column..

 

He can wear a coat & tie to get out of wearing his uniform , and the uniform if worn should be as correct as possible.. Flip Flops shorts & tank top won't do (You want to add the coat & tie to that, great!) Otherwise you better be from a crew where Flip Flops, shorts & tank top are the official uniform.

 

But, the badges may be anchored (neat and proper) without having to sew them on..

 

Now, maybe if you want to fight up to National, then National will not honor their own written policy and give the kid his badge.. But there is a written policy on what is considered proper attire for a BOR.

 

 

[fred8033]

Everything in ACPP page 29 about BOR uniforming is a "should". A requirement is a SHALL or MUST.

 

For example from the ACPP ... "The decision of the board of review is arrived at through discussion and MUST be unanimous." Or ... "At least one district or council advancement representative SHALL be a member of the Eagle board of review, ...."

 

I applaud positive encouragement, rewarding uniforming and leading by example. I just don't believe in the opposite site of it.

[John-in-KC]

Now that Calvin seems to have been run off

 

If I were sitting a BOR and a boys patch fell off between the time he got to the meeting and the time the BOR happened, I suspect I'd use that as an icebreaker, to say life happens in real time

 

Now, if the boy showed up for his Life BOR with Tenderfoot on his shirt, I might have a question or two ... not about uniform standards, but about how much he cares about Scouting...

 

I think a Scout should be able to take care of his Council patch (the old community and state strips, for those of us who remember those), his unit number, his rank, and his patrol. Everything else is bling.

 

... I also suspect if I'm sitting a BOR, I probably know enough about the Scout that if he's not wearing a uniform at all, I probably have an idea why.

[fred8033]

IMHO ... If the scout is wearing his uniform says something 60% about him and 40% about his family. If the uniform has all the right decorations says something 30% about the scout and 70% about his family. It's the rare scout that puts his own patches on his shirt. Just my opinion.

 

In my house, it's not unusual to have a morning hunt between five bedrooms for the right size of shirts, socks and underwear. It's common to have excitement before scout meetings trying to find the right scout shirt. Every family's different.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[Eagle92]

fred just gave us anopther reason for Sewing MB

[shortridge]

So we can sew our pants, socks, underwear and shirts together to make a Scout Jumpsuit and avoid missing bits?

[Eagle92]

Short,

 

You're bringing up bad. and stinky, memories for me man!

 

Seriously we had one guy do a week in the Canadian wilderness wearing the same flight suit the entire time. Grant you we were all pretty ripe since it was way too cold to clean up, but at least we changed clothes, he wore the same thing. I did learn one thing Mitchum Deodorant is so good, you can skip a day, or 6

 

On a more serious note about sewing, good skill to knwo not only to fix your uniform, or scout jumpsuit , but also to fix and tears and rips in your equipment. I had several folks shocked that instead of buying a new tent, I used a piece of leather and imitation sinew to fix my tent's tarp.

[moosetracker]

We had uniform inspection in our troop for a while.. Forget the award for having the best patrol. But one thing that gained you a few points was how you answered the question as to who sewed on you Rank.. If you did, you got a point more then the one that didn't.

 

Had son & friend sewing their patch on.. The friend was all excited about finishing the badge to find he had sewed the badge not only to his uniform shirt, but the tails of the shirt he was wearing and his jeans, surprisingly did not prick himself with a needle..

 

I still believe the entry of the uniform for BOR, whether it is "Should" or "Must" does not make a troop A_holes if that make it a requirement for their troop.. Troops are well within their rights to require what is expected.. Many troop require full uniforms others partial uniforms, all within their rights. Better if the PLC, makes the ruling rather then the adults.

 

National makes it a requirement to have FULL uniform to go to a National Jamboree, or World Jamboree. It is well within their rights as a uniform is expected of you.

[hadulzo]

I must be an easy going advancement chair since the pinned on patch doesn't bother me(I've seen them staped too) The badge of rank is more for the scout than anyone else. I would raz him a bit tell about how my uncle used to make extra money in the service sewing patches on uniforms.

 

What bothers me more is an Eagle candidate coming to a board of review with a merit badge sash, OA sash, and lodge flap and he's never been to an Oa meeting.

 

I wonder if this unit also asks for an ID card?

[Kudu]

moosetracker writes:

 

Kudu - ... you told him to rebel disrespectfully.. (all but your last comment, to sew the stupid patch back on.)

 

Yeah, just to be clear, Calvin: Those people intend to do you harm, and the "Scout Spirit" wild card is designed to do that.

 

So now that you know that you are right and they are wrong, it is up to you to be the "adult" in this situation and just sew the stupid patch back on

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I had a thought, Society often talks about the insolent behavior of youth and how they have no respect for authority

 

Is it because youth are naturally insolent or because so few authority figures tody actually deserve respect?

[Kudu]

In this case trained parents can extract undeserved respect because the YMCA structured the BSA monopoly to comply with their school-based, adult-run "camp" program.

 

Baden-Powell designed Scouting as the mastery of OBJECTIVE backwoods standards judged by trained outdoorsmen: Life Scout required a 20 mile backwoods Journey through difficult country without adult supervision.

 

Calvin's Board of Review was designed to demonstrate his compliance with SUBJECTIVE indoor standards as judged by trivial mommies and daddies.

 

My solution would be to require everyone to hike alone through 20 miles of "stiff" wilderness just to participate in his BOR, preferably on top of some mountain.

 

Those who survived would be more likely to have opinions worthy of a Scout's respect

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[bnelon44]

I don't know how much the YMCA has to do with our traditions or not. I did notice though that even though B-P states he doesn't care if a Scout wears a uniform or not, he also states in the Aids to Scoutmastership (1920):

 

"Smartness in uniform and correctness in detail may seem a small matter,

but has, its value in the development of self-respect, and means an

immense deal to the reputation of the Movement among outsiders who

judge by what they see.

 

It is largely a matter of example. Show me a slackly-dressed Troop and

I can Sherlock a slackly-dressed Scoutmaster. Think of it, when you are

fitting on your uniform or putting that final saucy cock to your hat."

 

 

[moosetracker]

The way I see it is in this day in age of the drop & go parents. Then anyone who chooses to offer help to a program to help the youth, deserves that youths respect.. Some troops are overrun with too many adults, but the majority fail due to not enough adult support.. Or not having the right adults in the right positions..

 

Sure the adults may not have the right idea about how to run the program correctly, but that means they need to be educated.. Educating adults will not come from a youth who is doing so in a disrespectful manner.

 

Also if too many of the youth of the program try to lead change and take control of their program by being Hooligans.. Not only will the adults they have leave the program, to the point it will be discontinued.. The "right" type of person who could have been a great SM, will likely never think to get involved..

 

The problem with troops with too many adults is they don't have enough to do so look for things, and most likely take things the kids can do away from the kids.. BUT.. normally these people have a large enough pool to attract someone who will make a good SM, and might be able to keep the other adults out of the program area..

 

The problem with troops with too few adults, is they may not have enough adults to even recharter. Or the pool is so small the first warm blooded, semi-breathing adult who doesn't run away fast enough when selected becomes SM.. He most likely will not have a clue (or interest) in running the program right..

 

In general thank the adults who do volunteer, and hope for a SM who can control the adults helpfulness, or if the youth have to wrestle the program away from the adults, they still need to do so in a way that will have the adults listen to them, and be impressed by their ambition, maturity, and independance..