Board of Review Question

[iamcalvin]

so i did a board of review for life today. the star badge on my left pocket fell of so i had to just pin it to my shirt for the board of review. they sent me back saying that i didnt have full uniform due to the pin. i was wondering if a rank being pinned to the left pocket of the shirt is acceptable. is there any written rule saying that the badge MUST be sewn to the shirt?

 

thank you

[moosetracker]

Greetings, iamcalvin.. Welcome to the forum!!

 

So sorry for your "wardrobe malfunction".. Board of Reviews rearly do postpone for a better time. But it does happen. They should though reschedule in a week or two..

 

All units are different. But yours sounds like a typical one. The Board of review is usually easy on the scout when going for tenderfoot, 2nd class, but slowly they expect more from a scout the further up in rank they go. Life is the last board you will have with your troop, the next board for Eagle will be with your District Board.

 

This typically will be the board your troop will expect you to display the tributes of a well polished scout. They want to prepare you for your Eagle board and what will be expected of you.

 

The Board "should" request you reschedule only for few reasons, but one could be uniform. It is one the Eagle board will expect from you (unless you are from a crew with no uniform).. Some boards demand full uniform of shirt & pants, some will not (your SM should know this unless you will be the first Eagle of the troop in a long time)..

 

Take this as well meaning advice to get you prepared for your Eagle board.. Fix your uniform, and politely ask for a new board for the next troop meeting.. A week or two isn't too much to ask for.. But if your troop only does Boards once a month or just before a Court of Honor, I would politely ask that they reconsider this.

[iamcalvin]

thank you(: but i am wondering if it is a WRITTEN RULE that the badge rank MUST be sewed on the shirt and cannot be place any other way.

 

thank you.

[Twocubdad]

Calvin,

 

Before anyone answers one way or the other, can I ask you a question? (And I promise you'll have your question answered fully.)

 

How will the answer to your question affect how you conduct yourself? What are you going to do with the information.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Agree with Twocub.. I could answer this, but I am looking at this as the fact that you can not get back last nights BOR. The only thing that matters at this point is how you conduct yourself at your next BOR.

[BDPT00]

I love the replies thus far. It depends upon what you want. Do you want the next rank, or is it important to you to shove something where the sun don't shine? Both are acceptable. Which makes more sense? I know the request is very personal, and a lot depends upon how you were told (and by whom).

Here's another shot at answering a question with a question: If the teacher tells you to use black ink, and you continue to use blue, are you surprised when you don't get an A? Does it really matter? Depends on who's giving the grade, don't you think? Or would you rather take your fight to the school board to see if you can get the teacher fired?

It all depends on how cute you want to be.

Good luck.

BDPT00

[BDPT00]

Hey, I've got a good one for ya, iamcalvin. You can go to the Scout Shop, and buy a Star rank pin. It's bigger than a mother's pin, and is made to be worn instead of a patch. Will that win the day for you? It'll take a little roadtrip, cost a little money, and you'll only wear it once, but hey .... how important is it to you to win this battle? If you really want to take it over the top, I'm sure there's a way you could sew that pin on your shirt. That'll teach 'em.

BDPT00

[moosetracker]

Well BDPT00 gave it away, to be honest TwoCub & I probably hinted at it also..

 

Answer is "No" people (if they want the mess) can use BadgeMagic, or some use velcro for anchoring badges (normally adults like that for their position especially if they are holding down 2,3 or 4 different positions..)

 

The problem is, I was willing to overlook the "badge on my left pocket fell off" just before your BOR.. But thought how well was it attached to "Fall off?"

 

With the second post, I now have to question if the badge is a tangent example of an overall attitude within your Troop. And the postponment for the board is really due to Scout spirit, due to an "in your face" attitude, or and "I don't care" attitude.

 

Were you asked fix the badge before the BOR? Were you wearing an older position and just not bothering to put the Star rank on? Is this the ice tip of other displays of not caring, or challenging others..

 

Now your position may be very innocent, that you would like to "respectfully" fix a misconception, for the benefit of other scouts who will come after you. And feel that as long as the badge is securly anchored, straight and appearing neat and presentable, it should be acceptable..

 

But, if your treatment of your badge, is not the real issue, but the issue is your attitude, then you returning with some smug statement and demand, will not help your case..

[ScoutNut]

Calvin, time to bite the bullet, stuff happens.

 

When your BOR was stopped due to your badge, the BOR members had to have rescheduled it with you.

 

Take the next few days/week to make sure the badge is firmly sewn to your pocket, and any other bumps in your trail are smoothed out.

 

If you go to your rescheduled BOR, prepared, and remember to live the Scout Law, you will be fine.

 

Good Luck.

[Kudu]

Calvin,

 

The simple answer is that there is no rule that a badge must be sewn to your shirt.

 

For $8.99 the Boy Scouts of America will even sell you a "Badge Magic" Patch Adhesive Kit:

 

"No more sewing badges! Kit contains a 12" sheet of adhesive material that is die-cut into shapes of the most popular uniform emblems, numbers, and badges. Peel off the backing and attach directly to the uniform."

 

In fact there is no national BSA "written rule" that requires you to even wear a uniform to a BOR. You can appeal it all the way to National HQ and you WILL win.

 

So why did a room full of adults lie right to your face?

 

Therein lies one of those "valuable lessons" that adults so love to teach:

 

Scouting was invented by a wise old general named Baden-Powell ("B-P"). He designed it as a "game" for boys who like extreme camping.

 

The "purpose" was to teach outdoor boys (the kind of boys who --like him-- don't care much for homework) how to grow up to be good citizens. So in his version of Scouting there are no schoolwork badges like "Citizenship," "Personal Management," or any of the other boring stuff known collectively as "Required."

 

You might wonder how Baden-Powell could teach citizenship without schoolwork badges.

 

The "purpose" of B-P's "game" is to experience citizenship directly; to work together as a group of boys to accomplish a common goal: extreme camping.

 

To that end Baden-Powell designed Scouting to be "boy-run." In his version of the game the Patrol Leaders literally run the Troop through their "Court of Honor" (what we call the PLC).

 

In Baden-Powell Scouting there is no "committee" of non-camping mommy and daddy experts, Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, "Scout Spirit" adult wild cards, or Position of Responsibly advancement requirements to encourage the rapid turn-over of young, inexperienced Patrol Leaders (aka what "trained" adults like to call "controlled failure leadership training").

 

The URL below is an example of a typical B-P boy-run committee meeting. Note that the Patrol Leaders tell the adults which Scouts they have promoted in rank, and not the other way around:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm

 

So Calvin, why does a Board of Review conducted by indoor mommies and daddies think they have the power to "send you back" over something as trivial as a badge?

 

The answer is "Monopoly."

 

A "monopoly" is the opposite of a "free market."

 

It's all about "citizenship" in the real world. The YMCA invented an adult-run schoolwork version of Scouting but at the time other American Boy Scout associations offered Baden-Powell's boy-run program.

 

So the YMCA took over a failing organization called the BSA which was run by a newspaperman who was bored with his bad business investment. The YMCA got the government to grant the BSA a monopoly on the word "Scouting" so that nobody in the United States could offer Baden-Powell's boy-run version of the program.

 

So hopefully you will learn a "valuable lesson" from all this: For the rest of your life whenever you hear the term "free market," you will remember what it is like to be treated unfairly by trivial people who impose their so-called "values" on you because they are backed by the power of a government-imposed "monopoly."

 

But before you start reading Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged remember that the grass only seems greener on the libertarian side. The fact that you have completed all the indoor Merit Badges and "PORs" you need to be a Life Scout might indicate that you would not like Baden-Powell's extreme camping program either:

 

Bushman's Cord (Life Scout) Venturer Badge (required):

 

1) Complete an adventure journey as a member of a Patrol in which you shall play a leading part.

 

a) The journey, which may be short in length, must include at least 5 incidents such as rescues from fire or heights, compass work, and signalling over distance.

b) Water incidents to be included for Sea Scout Troops.

 

2) Make a journey of at least 20 miles on foot or by boat, with [no adult supervision and] not more than 3 other Scouts.

 

a) Route must be one with which the Scout is not familiar and should, if possible, include stiff country.

b) Sleep out, using only the gear carried in a backpack.

c) Maximum weight 31 lbs which must include food.

d) The Examiner may set the candidate 1 or 2 tasks, which require a specific report but no general log of the journey is required.

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

 

Obviously the big advantage of the BSA program is that if you simply obey a committee of other boys' mommy and daddy experts at why your "Scout Spirit" sucks, you can earn Eagle Scout without ever walking into the woods with a pack on your back.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[moosetracker]

Kudu - Normally I respect you for your trying to run a boy scout program the way they did one hundred years ago in England.. I am fine with your one sided view trying to encourage the Adults to return boy scouts back to it's basic roots..

 

I am impress that against all odds you have gotten a troop to work under the old program. But, as you state in your troop, you don't look at advancement, and few boys advance past first class, because that was pretty much where it stopped back in the day. You scoff at anyone advancing to Eagle rank.

 

Confusing a youth who is going for star, because you don't agree with this part of the program, is cruel. I know you will be back, to argue against me, because it is your nature.

 

BP's program was a game with a purpose as you say, but within that game was also a lesson about teaching scouts character.. It was not about teaching scouts to be disrespectful, and insolent..

 

BP was in favor of the uniform The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country.

[Kudu]

moosetracker writes:

 

You scoff at anyone advancing to Eagle rank.

 

False: I only "scoff" at indoor Eagles.

 

Perhaps you think I "scoff at anyone advancing to Eagle" because you just assume that "indoor Eagle" is redundant!

 

So Calvin, if you are an indoor Scout then I hereby "scoff" at you.

 

moosetracker writes:

 

Confusing a youth who is going for star, because you don't agree with this part of the program, is cruel.

 

He is going for Life.

 

What is "cruel" and "confusing" is all the adults who will pile on him (here and in his Troop) to explain his experience in terms of how his "Scout Spirit" sucks.

 

For instance:

 

"but the issue is YOUR ATTITUDE, then YOU returning with some SMUG statement and demand, will not help YOUR CASE. I now HAVE TO question if the badge is a tangent example of an overall ATTITUDE within your Troop. And the postponement for the board is really due to SCOUT SPIRIT, due to an "IN YOUR FACE" ATTITUDE, or and "I DON"T CARE" ATTITUDE...Is this the ICE TIP of other DISPLAYS of not caring, or CHALLENGING others.. "

 

Heaven forbid a Boy Scout who dares "not to care" about a Star badge that falls off the last 20 minutes that he ever wears it, huh?

 

moosetracker writes:

 

BP's program was a game with a purpose as you say, but within that game was also a lesson about teaching scouts character.. It was not about teaching scouts to be disrespectful, and insolent...

 

No, B-P's lessons were about the character of a Life Scout that rings true only after he makes an extreme camping "journey of at least 20 miles on foot or by boat, with [no adult supervision and] not more than 3 other Scouts."

 

Nowhere in Baden-Powell's program is it possible for a bunch of "disrespectful and insolent" parents to take anything away from that Scout on the grounds of their indoor understanding of "Scout Spirit."

 

moosetracker writes:

 

BP was in favor of the uniform The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country.

 

Neither BP nor the BSA require a uniform for advancement.

 

moosetracker writes:

 

I know you will be back, to argue against me, because it is your nature.

 

Not so much here anymore. I have given Calvin the historical context with which to understand all of the "disrespectful and insolent" crap he got at his BOR and will get on this thread when all the indoor "values experts" park themselves in front of their keyboards at work on Monday morning to practice their awesome corporate cubical leadership skills on the boss' dime

 

In "Real Life" I would suggest that Calvin sew the stupid Star Badge back on his Uniform, but understand exactly why most red-blooded American boys hate the parent-run Webelos III program we call "Scouting."

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

[BDPT00]

So ... when we break down the long answers (assuming a few things), iamcalvin, the answer is no, there is no written rule. I think the concern (assumption) we have is that you plan to take copies of letters from people nobody knows, or maybe hand the BOR an Insignia Guide and invite them to prove their position in an attempt to prove a point. I think the BOR pissed you off. I would feel the same. However, if I were sitting on that board, and I had issues with an attitude, the patch becomes the focal point for both sides of the argument, and I might do the same thing they did. You can win this battle, but these same people are the ones (most likely) who will be instrumental in assisting, monitoring, approving, and mentoring your quest for Eagle. Good luck with that. Closing in on Eagle can have a lot of speed-bumps. How high do you wnat them to be?

BDPT00

 

[Engineer61]

Wow...no wonder that kid hasn't been back since the first reply...

 

I don't suppose any of you bothered to think for a moment that maybe it's not the Scout but the Board with the attitude eh?

 

Maybe the BOR's should be run by the boys as well...

[Eagle92]

Eng,

 

Once upon a time, I remember when youth were on BORs. I remember sitting on BORs as a PL for folks not in my patrol up to the rank of First Class, after that it was adults only. Believe it or not we were tougher on each other than the adults were. Grant you looking at the book, we didn't follow some of the rules, we demanded a full uniform to include current rank (up until 1989 when the time requirements for T-2-1 were dropped and we started having folks go for 2-3 BORs in one nite) and troop neckerchief, slide, and totem.

 

BUT on the flip side, PLs and their members helped each other out. I remember helping a patrol member out by lending him my necker and slide, b/c he lost his during game time and needed it ASAP for his BOR.

 

 

EDITED: I would LOVE, repeat LOVE to have youth on the T-2-1 BORs again. But I get the serious impression that National specifically, and society in general, do not believe that teenagers are capable of doing things on their own and being independent of adults.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)