Head Professional In Irving Re: Advancement

[qwazse]

Ea,

 

I agree that our registrar deserves props. I did lock horns with her once over an advancement issue, but she did me the courtesy of bringing other folks in on the conversation and a call went to National and back in that same hour. Multiply my issues times the thousands of scouters in council, and I can't imagine a day when her agenda isn't derailed by one crisis or another coming through the door!

 

That said, I can imagine a variety of scenarios where someone like OGE would like a voice of reason from outside council. But, I bet that "voice of reason" will first ask, "Have you talked to your SE about this?"

 

Brace yourself OGE.

[Abel Magwitch]

I am going to take a guess here. Was there a change in a Scout's dates when he earned a rank? Were there new advancement reports generated and back dated? Or perhaps there were merit badge blue cards re-issued with different dates. Or maybe dates were changed in the Scout office computer.

[hadulzo]

Time for a reality check, the exec board can only replace an SE if they have reasonable cause, not because they don't like the guy.

 

Another reality is that in most councils less than 5% of the COR's ever show up to an exec board meeting, and unless there is a major crisis going on they seem to be okay with letting the appointed board make all the decisions. It is the SE in most councils who ask influential individuals to join the board, so guess which way they might vote?

 

Your scenario, while it may be how it is on paper rarely imitates the reality of what is going on in most councils nationwide, like it or not.

 

BadenP

With repsect if this is not the case in your council who's fault is it, but the volunteers??

 

The status quo tried to sell our camp several years ago. After a lawsuit and lots of negotiating our council is run by the COR's. Even with a few scouting volunteers on the executive board.

[BadenP]

hadzulo

 

Don't tell me that you have all your COR's at every council exec meeting, that is not the reality in any council. Secondly even if they all did show up, which I seriously doubt, all a COR can do is vote yea or nay on any proposal brought up by the board, the COR's DO NOT create policy. Sure they can shoot down any board proposal but that rarely happens, and as a current COR myself I can tell you without the joint support of the executive board, who are also volunteers, nothing gets accomplished. You really need to get some experience serving on a exec board or as a COR before you make such ridiculous statements.

 

The only reason your camp was saved was because the majority of the board and the COR's had enough votes to overturn the proposal to sell it. I have had the same experience at another council but in that case the exec board had more votes including many of the COR's present to overide the rest of the COR's present who oppossed it, so we lost the camp. In EVERY council, except for the SE and their paid staff, all the rest are VOLUNTEERS, that is nothing new or unique to your council hadzulo.

[OldGreyEagle]

I was off on a "Beaver Weekend", the COuncil holds them in preparation of the Summer Campseason. Troops come and get to camp free and help ready the camp for the Summer, the troop I serve painted an addtion on the Econ building.

 

I asked for a name so I when I called irving, I could ask for someone, I did call Irving about noon on Friday and got to talk to someone who gave me his email so I can reference what he said

 

The question involves fundraising for Eagle Projects. The registrar is saying the Eagle candidate cannot ask for donations from the sponsoring organization of the project. Now, we all know an Eagle leadership service project cannot merely be a fundraiser, thats not the issue. Nor can a scout stand in front of the local Wal-mart and beg for money for his project nor commandeer an intersection goinf ffrom car to car looking forlorn. But I think a scout can ask the congreation of his church for funds for an Eagle Project that will beneift the Church. The Church may or may not be the chartering organizatio for the troop, but is the sponsoring organization for the project.

 

The registrar says anytime a scout gets a monetary donation, then the donor must get something of value for the money. I understand that, but I said I felt the Congregation was getting the project done for them, and that was the item of value. THe registrar disagrees and won't process any Eagle application or project that describes such conduct

 

Its actually molehill stuff, but this is getting emotionally charged the longer it goes on. There are many who think the way I do and there are some who support the registrar.

 

The guy in Irving concurred with my view, I am waiting for a confirming Email

 

I want to thank everyone who has sent me PM's, that is what makes a forum a community, people help, sharing,(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[gcnphkr]

arrggghhh

 

I take it that all the district and council committee members are in agreement on this.

 

I think you will be out of luck on this one. The council is operating outside the rules and will likely only change if forced to by National. Likely the only way to do that is by having a scout (make him young enough to do another project if needed) being willing to submit his Eagle Application and then appeal should the council reject it.

 

The problem is that someone on the advancement committee needs to approve the project. It does not need to be the chair, but you need to find someone on the committee that will give the go ahead on the project.

 

The problems with the registrar's position are many and obvious. The workbook states that funds can be raised and that these funds are in the form of money or material. That they are restricted use funds donated to the benefiting organization is implied by the requirement that any surplus funds must be returned. This also implies that the funds are direct donations and not donations for services rendered (for example, popcorn sales or car washes). If the funds were received for service then there would be no requirement to return the surplus.

[qwazse]

A.M., looks like you guessed wrong.

 

All of your issues are well within the purview of the registrar, and if he/she says "this is how the paperwork will be pushed," we should all fall in line. It helps us all do a better job.

 

Generally it's when someone "reads into" the Eagle application some restriction that is not there, that a registrar should defer to another authority.

[hadulzo]

sounds like a wording problem in the project. Eliminate the word donation. Change it to the sponsoring organization will provide materials for the project. Eagle delegates the COR to buy the materials and turn receipts into the organization.

 

[NealOnWheels]

The real issue here is not whether or not the donations were proper but that the registrar is approving/disapproving Eagle projects. That is the job of the advancement committee and ultimately the Board of Review. The registars job is to verify the scout is registered and that the application is accurate.

 

You can get a "ruling" on this particular incident but what prevents the registrar "discovering" another issue?

[OldGreyEagle]

the Districts do "approve" the Eagle Projects, he just reviews them to be sure they are complete, that's what started the imbroglio

[NealOnWheels]

Correct OGE.

 

So at this point the registrar should verifiy that there are signatures on the project workbook. He should not be making any determination on whether or not the project was carried out properly. That determination now falls upon the Board of Review.

 

I guess if he has concerns about it he could attach a note for consideration of the Board of Review.

 

Of course this is how it should be - changing things is quite another.

[eisely]

For what it is worth OGE, I agree with you. This has never come up in any Eagle project that I have seen, and many eagle projects in our district are supported either with cash or in kind donations by the beneficiary organization. I think your registrar is way out of line, and probably has too much time on his or her hands.

[SSScout]

I like the demarcation of the Benefiting Organization versus the Scout. The Scout SHOULD NOT solicit donations TO HIMSELF of any kind for the project. The donations must be made ON BEHALF of the benefitting organization, TO that organizatiion. Perhaps that is where the difficulty lies?