Sign or resign

[Eamonn]

Crossramwedge,

Did you really mean the Application and not the project?

If you meant the project?

My feeling is that the answer has been given.

I read and re-read the application form and it really doesn't seem that clear what the CC is signing off on or for, at least it wasn't clear to me.

 

With all the respect and good will in the world. It was clear that you don't like this Lad and that there isn't a lot of love lost between you and the Lad's father.

Are you 100% sure that you are being fair to the Lad?

At times even the best kids do really dumb and stupid things.

I remember a while back that we had a big fuss in the District.

A Lad who had been all the way through both Cub Scouting and Boy Scouts, made Eagle Scout. I knew the Lad and his family and had sat on his ESBOR, where he presented himself as a person who I thought could be the poster child for Eagle Scout rank.

However between the time of the ESBOR his COH, he along with a couple of other Lads removed the donkey (Ass.) from the nativity scene that the small community where he lives puts out every Christmas.

I was District Chairman at the time.

My phone was very busy. Some thought the removal of this statue was a hanging offense! A lot thought that presenting this Lad with Eagle Scout Rank was just wrong.

I did my best to explain that he was in fact an Eagle Scout and the presentation didn't really make any difference.

I did talk to the Lads mother and the Lad. In fact I went to his home to meet with them. The Lad said how sorry he was and that he hadn't really meant to upset so many people and at the time it just seemed like fun.

The donkey was returned and the Lad and his couple of friends re-painted all the statues and rebuild the stable.

The fuss did die down, but even though the Lad had been a good Scout for over ten years and has not been in any trouble since, there is a handful of Scouter's in the District who feel presenting him with his Eagle was wrong.

I agree that he did mess up, but he had met all the requirements for Eagle and even though he'd messed up and acted really dumb, he was as far as I was concerned an Eagle Scout.

I think that he also thought of himself as being an Eagle Scout.

At the end of the day the true worth of most awards are what the person who receives it holds it up to be.

Along the way I have received a lot of awards.

I think that for the most part I probably am worthy of most of them. But I was made?? Vigil Honor in the OA. I think this was mainly because my son was an officer in the Lodge as were a number of the Scouts that had gone to the National Jamboree. That and maybe because I'd been a Brotherhood for over 20 years!

The truth is that I know that I really wasn't the best person for that honor.

I very rarely wear the sash and just don't feel right about the whole thing.

I think if I'd been asked before I was grabbed that night at the fire I would have said something. Everything moved a little too fast and I was wrong in not saying something.

Maybe in time the Lad you talk about will see for himself how worthy or un-worthy he was of this Eagle Scout award? Maybe it is something that he really couldn't care less about?

Time will tell.

I have known a lot of Scouts over the years, some I like to think I have got to know very well. Even with the Scouts I thought I've known really well, I have never known if they really have given something their best, only they know that and maybe that's the way it ought to be?

Ea.

[Scoutfish]

two things:

1) Is the other dad on the EBOR Commitee? If not, his thoughts are irrelavent.

 

2) " I do not believe this kid to be Eagle material and do not even consider him a good scout."

 

That is your answer right there. Use that answer and follow it. If the boy or his father ask you why, then tell them openly and honestly about the things that have brought you to feel why you do.

 

The worst thing that could happen is that they do not like your answer .

[acco40]

At the end of the day the true worth of most awards are what the person who receives it holds it up to be.

 

How true. One possible effect of awarding this Scout with the Eagle Rank is that he will realize the expectations of the rank and put more emphasis on living up to those ideals than he has in the past. Wouldn't that be great?

[Basementdweller]

acco do you honestly believe that???????

 

This kid doesn't care one bit about eagle, do you think he will stay around and be and JASM????? I doubt it. This is dad's eagle not his this scout.

 

I have a couple of mom's who are going to be a similar problem to the OP's when the current SM retires.

 

My I have a meeting with the CC, COR and current SM in a bit to discuss tightening our advancement up and asking real questions to the scouts in the BOR.

 

 

[Crossramwedge]

This was a problem of our own making. We let it go to far. In all honesty as a kid he is OK, but as a scout he stunk. As it turns out the SM was there and he did sign off on the project being completed. He had talked to the man in charge of the facility that the work was done for. He was very pleased and actually more or less said that he was impressed with the boy. He said he met with him on several occasions about the project and that the boys Father was not present. One thing that irks me a little is the boys father put in almost as much time himself as the other participants did put together. I am not going to deliberately stand in the way of this boy getting his Eagle rank. It will be given to him though he did not really earn it. I will say this I would not want to be in his shoes at Eagle BOR time.

[ScoutNut]

>>"He was very pleased and actually more or less said that he was impressed with the boy. He said he met with him on several occasions about the project and that the boys Father was not present.">"One thing that irks me a little is the boys father put in almost as much time himself as the other participants did put together."

[Oak Tree]

Yes, ScoutNut is right, there is no official limit on how much a boy can tap dad. But I don't care, I'm not in favor of a kid saying "I'm the captain, my dad is the XO, follow his orders."

 

Also not a huge fan of dad doing all the work. The reason is primarily that Scouts tend not to lead their fathers. So I'd wonder about the leadership. I do know dads usually are helping out, pushing on things here and there, but they should not be person that most appears to deserve the leadership award.

 

-----

 

As for unit leader, just for the record: "unit leader The adult leader of a unit is a Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor, or Skipper." From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/LOS/All.aspx#def-head-u

[artjrk]

I just want to add a bit to the comments about the dad's time on the project. When my son was meeting with his District Advisor, he was told to include all time put in by everyone. This even included the time I spent driving him to meet the DA and sitting in the car. So if you consider I drove him to each of his meetings with each person involved. Add in the time we spent together creating the flyer and working with the forms (I am designer so he would tell me what he wanted and I would create it quickly, in the end less time than if he tried to do it himself) Add in the time we spent where I was just a sounding board as he formulated his project and worked out his game plan. Its easy to see where a parent can have almost as much time involved as the Scout.

[Crossramwedge]

I do not dislike the boy or his father. As I stated as a kid he is OK but as a Scout he stunk. No I am not going to be or appoint anyone to be on the BOR. The Districts Eagle Advancement Chair will be on it along with 3 other SM's and a Youth Minister from the CO. Yes he will be questioned extensively. He is a charming lad and smart. He plays stupid but he isn't. In the past in BOR's when asked a question he says he is so nervous that he can not remember the answer. Well he is going to have all night to answer what he is asked. If you call this an inquisition so be it. We even have doubts that he knows the Scout Oath, Law or Motto, We will find out. He will be getting his Eagle rank no doubt. Who knows he might surprise us.

[qwazse]

FYI - Thats very different from how we do it.

 

SM and any available ASM's meet with the boy for his Eagle SMC.

 

Only committee members and the district representative sit on our EBORs. SM introduces the boy, then leaves the room and waits more or less patiently in the hallway.

[hadulzo]

You can "not sign" and not attend the board of review. You can also submit a carefully worded letter to the board of review (only based on facts that can be verified and not your opinion). Then hold your head high and keep your job. You have also learned a lesson here hopefully.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Theres a third course, the one Id take. Schedule a sit down with the SM, COR, and AC, explain the situation, and that fact that you cannot in good faith sign off on the project, as the scout has not met the required standards. Explain that you want to discuss this with the committee before discussing the issue with the scout, to be sure everyone was on the same page. Recommend giving the scout a period of time to successfully complete the requirements, and as a group handle this at the next committee meeting, with the scout, and his parents. Id send a letter to the District AC explaining the units rejection of the project, have the COR counter sign it.

 

Eagle is a big deal, and must be earned, do your best to allow the scout to earn Eagle. If the scout fails to put forth the effort, its on him. Be sure he gets the direction on how to correct his short falls, and has an assigned advisor, who is not his father.

 

[CalicoPenn]

Yeah, that'll look good at Council, a unit rejecting a project that the recipient is very happy with.

[Twocubdad]

I'm sure a beneficiary would be very happy with a project if a kid's parents stroked a check and hired a contractor to complete the project turn-key.

 

What the beneficiary wants from a project is different from what the unit is looking for. I sure hope the council understands that.

 

Flip side, I can envision a project where the beneficiary is unhappy but the Scout satisfactorily completed the requirement.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[packsaddle]

I asked this in another thread and never got an answer: when did we start requiring an Eagle project and why?