STEM-NOVA award, making it cool (and rewarding) to be a geek/nerd

[BadenP]

I did not say that the scouting should not have science included in the program because it does in Cubs and Boy Scouts, however the focus of the original scouting program was the outdoors and ever since the 1970's we have been moving further and further away from that focus. Now we have a CSE, who I have known and worked for stating that camping and the outdoors is not important to scouting anymore and is moving the program even further away from the outdoor experience. Any of you "nerd/geek" scouts who really think that the outdoors should not be the focus of the BSA than IMO you are not really true scouts. Adam, Baden Powell believed and taught that boys learned to be good citizens and leaders through the outdoor experiences he created, NOT in front of a computer. Now we are seeing a shift in the BSA back to the disasterous urban scouting of the 1970's led by a CSE whose only motivation is MONEY and MEMBERSHIP and that will only continue the serious decline in BSA membership we have been seeing.

 

Mazzuca IMO is a very POOR EXAMPLE of a person holding the highest office in the BSA and I am convinced it will take the BSA decades to recover from his administration, which hopefully will end soon as he is long overdue for retirement.

[packsaddle]

In my experience in matters involving STEM (sensu National Science Foundation, not Exxon Mobil), the emphasis is on quantitative skills in support of mostly physical sciences, engineering, and math (the EM part). The objection I am reading seems to be in regard to the 'T' part which seems inevitably to be interpreted as something to do with semiconductors.

 

I would like to note that there are plenty of opportunities for the EM part of this to be engaged IN THE OUTDOORS. and not in front of a computer screen. I and most of my immediate circle of interactions see the 'T' part of STEM as derived from the EM part and not the other way around. The 'T', in this sense, can also stand for 'Tools' as well as 'Technology'. And while good tools help with the Science, the biggest obstacle is the tool between our ears. If we can't think critically or have disciplined imaginations, then the tools will rule US...not to mention the Chinese and other better-"Prepared" nationalities.

 

There is NOTHING incompatible between the outdoors and the 'S' and the 'EM' parts of STEM.

[perdidochas]

I'm with Skeptic. Unless you define camping as backpacking and canoe camping only, most Scouts camp a lot. Yes, it's mainly car camping, but it has the same purpose--get the kids out in the woods/outdoors doing something. My Tenderfoot who just completed his first year in the Troop has done 16 nights in a tent as a Scout since May 2010. (6 of those nights being summer camp).

[Eagle707]

Again, BadenP, this is an elective award: it is AN opportunity but is by no stretch of the imagination the ONLY opportunity the BSA offers. Nobody is advocating for a shift away from the outdoor programs of the BSA. We're just excited that we have another opportunity for the Scouts we serve. We still have our emphasis on Scoutcraft (or at least we do in the councils I have served) and introducing this just broadens our horizons. I know several math/science types who are avid outdoorsmen. Two of the best Scouts I have worked with made it their state's Science Olympiad championship and are also proud Scouts and Arrowmen (while closing in on Eagle).

 

I think that these attempts to create rifts between the "science" and "Scouting" crowds are artificial and, candidly, more of a threat to a solid BSA program than these awards could pose. These claims have no base and I can give you a pretty solid example: I have a friend who is an avid outdoorsman and pursuing a Ph.D in theoretical physics. I'm sure he would be the first person to tell you that there doesn't need to be a disconnect between an interest in science and an interest in the outdoors.

 

I understand that you've worked for the CSE and doubt that he is the best person for the BSA. However, not all of us have had that privilege and, thus, we are stuck with judging the program on its merits and not based on our assumptions about Bob Mazzuca's ulterior motives. You brought up very similar arguments on the thread about the Math/Science Bronze Award (which, I'm assuming, this replaces). I don't know why you associate math and science with video games and computers. In fact, claims like those seem to only support the need for STEM education and opportunities: there is obviously a disconnect between what STEM stands for and what it is perceived as in the Scouting community.

 

By the way: Pioneering, while sold as Scoutcraft, is just another form of engineering.(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

[BadenP]

Eagle707

 

You obviously haven't read my posts here very throughly I have said twice here that I have no problem with science in the BSA program. What I do object to is the evergrowing movement away from scoutings foundation in a pretty lame attempt to attract boys to scouting that really have no interest in being scouts. The same thing can be said with the hispanic cub soccer program, all of these are attempts by the Mazzuca team at National to totally modify the BSA into some sort of YMCA type of organization. All of your rather innaccurate and obtuse observations do not change those facts.

[Adam S]

Baden P I absolutely agree with you opinion on the Mazzuca and the fact that BSA seems to be a fund raising organization now. I also absolutely agree camping is important (in fact it is my single fondest memory from when I was a scout), I was only pointing out that there is room for the science stuff.

 

Adam

[sailingpj]

I hope they roll this out in time for me to earn it. Just because I want to ear an award named after a scientist and a Sea Scout. Both things I am very interested in.

[Eagle707]

BadenP, I must have misinterpreted your posts. If that is the case, I apologize. That being said, I have a few candid remarks of my own.

 

I'm glad you have no problem with science and Scouting but I'm sure you would agree that mentioning the downfall of the BSA in every comment on these threads could very easily be misconstrued: I have gone through all of your posts and I have found exactly one remark that explicitly suggests that you welcome science in Scouting. Otherwise, you have only derogatory jokes and stereotypes about people who might be interested in STEM-focused awards and those vastly outnumber your token statement.

 

You've also made similar mistakes in saying that we believe that the outdoors should no longer be the focus of the BSA: you are equating minor change with a total paradigm shift. Nobody here has said that so apparently I'm not the only one misreading posts. On those grounds, please cool it with your insults. You and I both know that insults are only brought out when the speaker is running out of arguments.

 

If you want to write about the downfall of the BSA, spin off another thread and leave this discussion to the people who want to discuss the award. Your discussion of "Soccer and Scouting" in this thread is reason enough for you to move your discussion to another thread. Also, if you really have a problem with the BSA, consider joining the Baden-Powell Service Association: they use Baden-Powell's original handbook. The BSA will evolve whether we want it to or not so we, as elective members, need to deliver the program we are given. By the way: Soccer and Scouting was launched under Roy Williams, not Bob Mazzuca. I guess I'm not the only one who is presenting "inaccurate" facts.

 

If you want to rant about Bob Mazzuca, please spin off a thread. Otherwise, contain the jokes and discuss the requirements as a Scouter and not as a jaded individual.(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

[FScouter]

If your unit is moving away from an outdoor focus, and if your Scouts have little interest in Scoutcraft and camping and such it surely doesn't have anything to do with the chief Scout executive. The Scouting program resides in the unit, not in Texas. If your unit is not getting outdoors, look to the unit adult leaders, not the national council.

[BadenP]

Eagle 707

 

Look at who is doing the insults now, listen read the title of this thread again the OP is using this award as an open invitation to all "geeks and nerds" that scouting has now made accomodations altering their program to bring them into scouting. On that premise alone your criticisms fall apart. Second Mazzuca is very relevant to this thread as he is at the helm of this ongoing shift in the scouting program. Thirdly you being new here I have no idea how extensive your scouter experience truly is but from your comments I am guessing fairly limited and uninformed.

[packsaddle]

As someone who also has received the suggestion to leave and start another organization (or something along those lines), I suggest that such advice is ALSO a sign that someone is running low on their argument.

So here is what I think the better approach is: if one person seems to rely on derogatory remarks or sarcasm to make their argument, the other person should respond to the face-value ideas alone and not the emotion. This tends to disarm the remarks and the sarcasm. And it strengthens your argument even more. The cost of this advice was $0.02

[Eagle707]

Touche, packsaddle. I'm definitely out of patience. For the record, though, I didn't suggest he START an organization.

 

I'll just say I agree with FScouter's observation and leave it at that. I'm excited to see what local units can do with this award.(This message has been edited by Eagle707)

[BartHumphries]

'the OP is using this award as an open invitation to all "geeks and nerds" that scouting has now made accomodations altering their program to bring them into scouting.'

 

BadenP, as the OP, let me repeat my earlier comment (from the 1st page, although not in my first post of this thread) -- I think that geeks/nerds make the *best* scouts. One of the hallmarks of a geek/nerd (in my opinion) is curiosity, a desire to learn, to find out. That's true for knot tying, wilderness survival techniques, finding out whether (for a really extreme example that demonstrates pure curiosity) drinking saved urine in a rattlesnake skin is beneficial or not (see Bear Grylls, Man vs Wild), as well as computers, geocaching GPS devices, things that go boom (rifles, shotguns, rockets), using a good handheld "ham" radio with your amateur radio license to tap into a nearby repeater station and chat with the Scout troop on the other side of the mountain, and other cool stuff. Those dense people who are singularly uninterested in learning, who couldn't care less which stars form which constellation or how to navigate on a cloudy day, those types of people generally don't make good scouts. You have to be something of a geek/nerd to be a scuba diver -- at least I know my Open Water test asked me to calculate some dive depths/times.

 

Scouting is not altering its program, it's offering a new way to recognize/reward people for what they already do. Sure, this may prompt some people to investigate STEM more than they otherwise would have done, but I really don't see how that detracts from any other focus of Scouting -- everything in Scouting invites a person to investigate that subject more thoroughly.

[OldGreyEagle]

I gotta say, that if the BSA is abandoning its outdoor program, I have a hard time explaining the acquisition of the new Jamboree site. It's not in any way shape or form in a developed area at all. If BSA was making itself over from High Adventure to more Mediocre Adventure, then the selection of the area around Glen Jean West Virginia makes no sense at all.

 

In 2010 BSA rolled out the National Outdoor Badges:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

 

Looks like someone spent a lot of time developing an awards program centered on the Outdoors and Adventure, strange behavior indeed for an organization that is sometimes represented as running screaming from the Outdoors.

 

Am I satisfied with the BSA's approach to High Adventure and the Outdoors, no sir I am not. It distresses me to no end that no adults patrol outings were killed and I told our Council Exec how much I did not like it. He promised to get back to me on why they were eliminated and its been awhile and I have to remind him of his promise. I did buttonhole him during the Council's University of Scuting so I didnt expect much but its time to remind him but boy did I digress.

 

Perhaps BSA is just trying the best it can to be relevant to toays youth and saw the STEM-NOVA award as part of that. What was it that Dr Richard Reed said in the movie Fantastic Four: RIse of the SIlver Surfer

 

General Hager: [to Reed] Let me make this clear for you and your pack of freaks. I'm the quarterback, you're on my team. But I guess you didn't play football in high school, did you, Richards?

[Hager starts to walk away]

Reed Richards: You're right. I didn't. I stayed in and studied like a good little nerd. And fifteen years later, I'm one of the greatest minds of the 21st century. I'm engaged to the hottest girl on the planet. (Jessica Alba!) And the big jock who played football in high school, he standing right in front of me asking me for my help, and I say he's not going to get a damn thing, unless he does exactly what I say and starts treating me and my friends with some respect.

General Hager: [understandingly] Give him what he wants.

[Hagar walks away]

Susan Storm: [to Reed] I'm so hot for you right now.

Johnny Storm: [hugging Reed and switching powers] Me, too!

 

To paraphase the Sermon on the Mount:

 

Blessed be the nerds, for they make our life easier (see computers, Ipods, Smart Phones, Microwaves)

 

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)