Scout spirit

[Basementdweller]

So What is scout spirit????

 

Setting up a tent in the rain with no complaint?

 

Sleeping with your patrol instead of your dad?

 

Complaintless service?

 

Attending all the outings????

 

Or merely being active

 

To me scout spirit is a lot of things that may seem pretty intangible.....

 

First is attitude, is it raining????? Does the scout care and is he complaining???? Help around camp with out being asked? Does he attend work days as well as fun days???

 

Service to others.....does he participate, willingly??????

 

 

The reason I ask is we have psyco family with boy who comes from a family of eagles. Psyco son can't sleep with his patrol, eat meals provided at camp and attends service projects for minutes instead of hours. His BOR is coming up, In his book I noticed he documented the full work days and full campout despite not sleeping over or working the full day. I called the SM and Dad over to discuss the problem, it ended pretty heated with Dad not being real happy. The only thing I said was a scout is trustworthy and dad exploded. So would I be out of line in clueing the CC and committee as to what is going on?????

[moosetracker]

I would definately clue in the CC.. The CC can decide if the committee needs to be included or not.. But angry parents, fall into the CC's domain, so a heads up so they can go in well informed would be nice.

 

Is the SM in agreement with you?

[SMT224]

When a Scout behaves in a way that is clearly outside of the Scout Law, then he is having problems with the Scout Spirit. To me, the Scout Spirit is really living the Scout Law.

 

The Scout you describe clearly has issues that merit a SMC, especially the service hours. What rank is the BOR for?

 

If he does not sleep with his Patrol, where does he sleep? Why does he not want to eat camp food? What does he eat?

 

Is the real issue here the Scout or the dad? Who enables him to sleep & eat elsewhere? And why does he even have a choice?

[Basementdweller]

He sleeps with dad if he stays at camp.....otherwise they will drive him in for saturday with the troop. He stayed at a nearby motel for summer camp last year because the tents had spiders. Yet he claims full participation in these outings.

 

When he stays he brings his own food and cooks (well dad cooks for him) separate. One night he and dad ate steaks in front of us, we ran them out of the patrol areas. He refuses to participate in the patrol cooking, "Because I am not eating it, I am not going to cook it or clean it". Boys let him skate on this one. Last couple of outings he never told us he was coming because I am not eating the food I am not going to pay to camp. No declared food allergies.

 

yes the SM is in agreement, the rank is second class.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Eagle92]

If the Family is full of Eagles, then Eagle dad needs to tell his son to step up to the plate. Eagle dad should know better.

 

Also who signed off in the books? If the PL or SPL signed off, then I would have a discussion with them on how they are short changing the youth by signing off. Ditto another leader.

 

IF Eagle dad is registered and signed off, and your troop doesn't have a policy of no parents signing off, again stressing YOUR TROOP as there is no national policy forbidding this, Scout Spirit is one way to nip it in the bud before the BOR. If even that is signed off, then I would do the conference advising the Tenderfoot on hiow he hasn't earned 2nd Class, and what he does need to do to earn it, and advise him that you do not recommend he goes to the BOR. You will still need to Sign off on SMC though.

 

Advise the BOR privately on the matter if Tenderfoot persists. If he does go through the BOR, make sure the BOR explains why there are deficiencies, how to change that, and WRITE IT UP. Me personally i'd give a hand written copy that nite signed by the BOR, and print one up and email to all parties invovled ASAP.

 

This does not sound like a good situation.

[moosetracker]

All depends on if Eagle dad made Eagle in a good troop, or an Eagle Mill. Sounds like since he thinks this is acceptable behavior, it was an Eagle mill.

[SeattlePioneer]

On the theory that one bad Scout can drive several good Scouts out of a Pack or Troop, I'd nip this in the bud before in goes farther.

 

Very likely that would mean the boy transferring into another troop. I wouldn't accept that kind of spoiled behavior.

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Dad is not an eagle, Mom's family are all eagles. We have caught them doing an end around with the ASM's and PL's getting requirements signed off. Requiring us to institute a policy of only SM signing off, this was about two weeks ago, when we caught Dad coaching son thru the three R's and hoodwinking the PL.

[SMT224]

Wow.

 

Thanks for the extra info Basement.

 

This is so beyond a helicopter parent I don't even know what to call it! A gunship parent?

 

Dad has to be told that he is completely out. Hit the road Jack! No more coming on camping trips or to summer camp. This kid must be able to swim or sink on his own.

 

Yep, as SM, I would challenge this Scout on a number of items, including Scout Spirit. If he can advance based on what he's done and his behavior, what are the other Scouts to think? Why should they have to work if he doesn't? And steak???!!!

 

Seriously, if this keeps up this kid will have a very hard time standing on his own two feet! Better to have a few bumps now rather than a tragic fall when he's older. As much as his dad may think he's helping his kid, he's actually doing the opposite.

 

[Eagle92]

Ok I bet dad thinks whis is still CS. I would diplomatically get dad on the side and show him a few scenes from FOLLOW ME BOYS to show that the purpose of scouting is not getting Eagle, but rather to let the scout learnt o take care of himself.

 

Scenes I'd show include the lake scene in which the scouts are working on advacnement, and the two guys cooking burn their meal and do not get signed off for advancement. Shows that scouts do not always suceed, and that making mistakes IS a learnign method. Plus it's a funny scene and may catch him off guard.

 

Next scene would be the scouts building their hut while Lem is on the honeymoon. The scouts took initiative, used their resources, spent a bunch of time and energy building it, only to have it collapse. Then gets involved offering ideas and giving direction, they are a new troop at this time and I think the highest rank is 2nd Class. Again it shows that scouting instills initiative and gives folks a chance to learn new things AND still have a safe environment to fail.

 

Last I'd show is the one where Whitey is leading his patrol on a hike and someone falls, Whitey leads his patrol in the rescue. The ask the dad if by having his sone take shortcuts, did he think the son could honestly make a rescue liek that without any help?

 

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

Spiders in tents? No one informed the Scout that motels have spiders in them too?

 

This isn't a Scout Spirit issue - this is an adult leaders lacking spine issue.

 

When the Scout and Dad stayed at a motel instead of at summer camp, the Troop's leaders facilitated that by not standing up to them and telling them "No". If they insisted, you cancel the Scout's reservations. No if, no ands, no buts (given that there was no medical reason for the motel stay).

 

This should have been dealt with long before now. Cooking on their own? You tell them "NO" and invite them to eat what everyone else is preparing, or leave camp. You are no obligation to provide anyone with space to do their own private cooking.

 

Sleep in the same tent as dad? You tell the "NO" - the Scout will camp with his patrol, and dad will camp with the adults. If they don't like it, you invite them to leave camp.

 

If you lose the Scout - so what? Why negatively impact the experience for all the rest of your Scouts for one person?

[Twocubdad]

No more calls, please, we have a winner.

 

Cross your eyes and dot your tees, 'cause it may get ugly. I would suggest the SM and CC sit with the Scout and dad and give them the new marching orders. Have a letter prepared which lines in plain language the troops expectations, including a hard deadline for the behavior to change (yesterday) and a statement that failure to comply will result in removal from the unit. Make sure your COR and IH are on board. Here I'd give my DE a heads-up, too, in case he gets a call.

 

This is a cancer in the troop. Removing it will be painful, but better done now rather than later.

[Eamonn]

I really feel sorry for this Lad.

Dad seems to be way off base.

Maybe a meeting with both parents, where someone explains whats what and how things are supposed to work might help?

I'd be tempted to have the Lad attend a SMC and let him know what has gone on in the past is just not acceptable.

The term "Tough Love" keeps running through my little gray cells

Ea.

[SMT224]

Thinking about this, I'm not sure how this kid could have earned his Tenderfoot, let alone almost 2nd Class.

 

Did he spend a night on a patrol or troop camping trip sleeping in a tent he helped pitch? Doesn't sound like it, as sleeping with Dad doesn't count. And then did he assist in preparing and cooking of a Patrol meal? It seems like the answer is "no". So how did he earn Tenderfoot?

 

And as for 2nd Class, did he participate in five separate Troop or Patrol activities and camp overnight at least twice? Without Dad? Again, sleeping with Dad (or in a hotel) does not count. Did he plan and cook a Patrol breakfast or lunch? Not if Dad is doing the cooking!

 

As others have said, there are some real leadership issues here! Lay down the same law as for every other Scout out there, and if these folks turn tail and head for the door, the Troop will be better off without them.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Show me in the requirement, that he can't sleep with DAD, he helped set the tent up, I think he unrolled it, but that is still helping. Dad packed his backpack for him, He arrived dressed for the outing and his gear was in a big duffle. He helped the patrol make friday dinner, hot dogs and chips......

 

The family knows the requirements and they are doing exactly what he needs to advance.

 

 

Spineless, fair enough. So what do we do just boot him out of the troop????

 

Yes he and dad camped with us....both memorable including the boy melting down when we threw him and his steak out of the patrol dining area.