Activities Before Crossover

[evry]

There will be several Webelos from a local Pack crossing over on March 15 into our Troop. On the previous Saturday (March 12), the troop is going on a 5 mile hike, and the troop has invited the Webelos along. My question to all the knowlegeable Scouters is:

 

Can these Webelos use this 5 mile hike for the 2nd Class requirement 1(a) and (b)?

 

1.a. Demonstrate how a compass works and how to orient a map. Explain what map symbols mean.

b. Using a compass and a map together, take a five-mile hike (or 10 miles by bike) approved by your adult leader and your parent or guardian.

 

I didn't find anywhere where it says that thse activities must be done while they are "officially" Boy Scouts.

 

Also, can a Star rank teach one of these Webelos the requirement 1(a) for his Life rank EDGE requirement?

[SeattlePioneer]

I'd do it. Sounds like a terrific activity for new Boy Scouts, and I'd surely want them to finish the hike by getting those requirements signed off.

 

 

I would assess the risk of your being stripped of your Boy Scout position in a coloful ceremoney as "low."

 

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

[SMT224]

No. They are not Boy Scouts. They are still registered with and part of the Cub Scout Pack. Therefore, the activity cannot be used for advancement.

 

I suggest you do a fun activity with the Webelos and their parents. A five mile hike may be a bit much for some of they younger guys. You wouldn't want their first experience with the Troop to be a bad one, especially if they lack the proper equipment and someone gets blisters or runs out of water.

 

We have annual early April camping trip with the Webelos just before their late April Crossover as a way for the Webelos and families to get to know the Troop. We do a service project on Saturday morning, then have afternoon Scout games and skill building for the Webelos. Each Patrol in the Scout Troop sets up a station of activities, and the Webelos and parents break up into small groups and rotate around the stations. This gives the Webelos and their parents an idea of what the Troop is like and have a fun time. They camp out with their parents & cook as a Webelos Den, then join with the Boy Scouts for the campfire program.

 

[evry]

I expected to hear a "no" but surprised to read the opinion that a 5-mile hike is too much for a Crossover Scout (11 year old)! I would think that a 5 mile hike is the ideal introduction to Boy Scouts.

[SMT224]

evry -

 

It really depends on the boys as to how well they'll do on the hike. If you have a group of boys who are bursting to be Scouts, then they may do great and have a blast!

 

As long as everyone has good hiking boots and enough water & food, you may well be good to go. I've seen how quickly blisters form in the unprepared, and it is no fun for anyone.

 

Hope you guys have a great hike!

[5yearscouter]

Well see.... if the boys their last pack meeting and get their last cub scout awards, and fill out applications for the troop and turn them in,

and go on the hike as boy scouts,

but the pack had scheduled the actual crossover ceremony after they are registered boy scouts as the ceremony for pictures kind of thing only,

then I'd count it as a boy scout activity that could count for the 2nd class achievement I guess.

 

if the boys are going to not have turned in their applications to the troop

and are still members of the pack,

I wouldn't count this as a boy scout achievement,

and would plan to cover this item again sometime in the next year of their scouting where they can do it right.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Good question. I am going to ask this though: Have they filled out AND turned in their Boy Scout application yet? I know they need to fill one out for AOL, but if they have turned it in, then i would assume they are Boy Scouts now, and that teh Crossover ceremony is a formality.

 

Kinda like completing college, you completed your degree, but you don't need to attend the ceremony to say you graduated.

 

 

Also I was just informed of a trial or program experiment that my council is doing. We are now allowing Scouts to invite a friend to go to summer camp with them. All the rules apply, i.e. swim tests, physicals, etc. but they do not have to be registered boy scouts. They can take any classes they want to. IF they decide to join scouts, then all the work they did can be applied to advancement.

 

So while initially I would say "No" if they had not filled in the app and turned it in, I am ammednable.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Hawkrod]

My advise? Dot your I's and cross your T's. Have all the paperwork filled out and dated and signed before the 12th and let the Crossover be the formality. They will not likely be having a meeting between the 12th and 15th to work on advancement so it should not be an issue. If they have to meet between the 12th and 15th to finish Cub advancement then they are still Cubs and it just can't count (my opinion but I think if they are still working on Cub advancement I do not feel they should be starting on BS advancement).

[Snow_White]

E92,

 

I'm not sure when it was dropped, but filling out the application is no longer one of the AoL requirements. I believe that the replacement is the current requirement to visit a troop you are interested in joining (with your parents, presumably after the den has visited one or more troops) and to have a Scoutmaster Conference.

[Eagle92]

SW,

 

Thanks for the update. I am personally glad they did away with the requirement as when I did it, you had to turn the app in, which is my my den were the only ones getting AOL, then they did away with the turn in part, which I felt was wrong.

 

I like the new requirements.

[AKdenldr]

Putting the advancement issue aside,

 

Unless you really know these boys and their parents, someone needs to make a gear check. It doesn't have to be an adult. It shouldn't be the morning of, but in advance.

 

Could even be on the phone by a patrol leader, followed up with email. (That would be way cool to the 10 year old.)

 

5 miles is a long way to walk in crocs, with no jacket, and only chewing gum for lunch.....

[SR540Beaver]

evry,

 

We run into this with merit badges from time to time. A kid wants to do Camping merit badge at 15 and wants all the nights he camped since joinging scouts to count. While I understand why that makes sense to them, you do the requirements of a merit badge AFTER you sign up for the merit badge and your SM approves it. Otherwise, my son who has been on the school newspaper staff for school could simply get the SM to sign off on him taking the MB and then tell the counselor that he did al lthe requirements 3 years ago.

 

The Webelos need to be real live bona fide Boy Scouts in the troop before you start signing off on requirements. There isn't any hurry, requirements are not a check off list to be completed as soon as possible. Prior to doing that 5 mile hike with a map and compass, they need to learn how to use a map and compass and how to properly hike. My experience working with groups of 15 or so new scouts per year for the last several years is that very few of them cross into a troop with the proper footware, socks or rain gear.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

 

Hmmmm. I guess I was a slack Scoutmaster.

 

It didn't occur to me to make an issue of that. Would you allow a Tenderfoot to get a card so he could start counting up those 15 nights?

 

If a Scout could document his nights of camping (and we encouraged notes in his handbook) he was good to go.

 

Another example of the variety of Scouting you can find I suppose. And I'm not suggesting you were "wrong" or I was "right." Frankly your interpretation, which is reasonable, never occurred to me.

 

I suspect that I simply bought into the existing practice in that troop without thinking about it. Thirty years ago this fall--- details fade!

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

The OP was talking about a specific rank requirement, not about a MB. Let's stick to the question asked, as the procedures and requirements for rank and MBs are quite different.

 

I would not credit anything they have done in cub scouts for boy scout rank requirements. The joining requirements (Scout Badge) are different, and I would treat them as such. As an example, if I had a SM conference with a Webelos (AOL requirement) and he joins the troop a week later, I would not repeat the conference as there would be little to nothing to gain (for the scout). Remember, the requirements for the Scout badge are Joining Requirements, not a rank. But I digress.

 

For any boy scout requirement, I would expect the activity to have occurred while a registered member of the troop. Otherwise, it would be an "award" which could be earned as a cub scout.

 

For me this issue is black and white; I don't see any gray area here. MBs, though a different issue, I would treat the same way. But that interpretation is to be made by a counselor, not by me, the SM.

[evry]

Thanks all...it probably is moot since they will be doing another hike after they join. the responses raise some interesting questions. Camping nights for Camping MB....wow!....I could see how you would require all the camping nights to be done after he gets his blue card OK'd by the Scoutmaster, but our MB Counselors allow the Scout to use any camping nights since joining to accumulate the 20.

 

The second part of my original inquiry was not addressed. Can a Star Scout teach a younger Scout how to orient a map using the EDGE method? So a Star teaches the crossover webelo (before he crosses over) and then once the webelo crosses over and becomes a Scout, he gets an A. Scoutmaster to check him on the requirement. The Star Scout should get credit for the EDGE method...right?