Making it easy

[Twocubdad]

Why do some adults feel the need to make earning merit badges easy and convenient for Scouts?

 

What's the motivation for someone to organize a merit badge university where scout can walk in and earn a couple merit badges in a day? Is it for the convenience of the adults? Are your Scouts so needy you have to throw them these kibbles to keep their interest? Is there a demand among parents that they get more bang for their bucks if their Scout earns a lot of MBs?

 

I want my Scouts to WORK for merit badges. I want them to learn not just the merit badge subject, but that initiative and effort pays off. I want them to have to overcome challenges. Isn't that the purpose of the merit badge program? If mom drops me off at the scout house and I sit with my face in my hands through four hours of yacking, have I done any of that?

 

We always tell Scouts, "It's not the destination, it's the journey." Does anyone really belive that anymore?

[momof2cubs]

"We always tell Scouts, "It's not the destination, it's the journey." Does anyone really belive that anymore?"

 

NO. I'll tell you why I think that, and some of it's the parent's fault but some of it is not.

 

First of all, I agree 100% that scouting is not all about getting to Eagle as fast and as easy as possible. But there's another aspect to it that even the best of us can fall prey to. Life is getting (in my opinion) BEYOND competitive for young lads right now. The resources are getting more and more limited as population increases. The competition for college entrances and scholarships is FIERCE. So based on that, man I can for sure understand trying to push a kid to get his Eagle ASAP so he can move on to MORE things that will pad his college entrance resume. (4H, more competitive sporting, science competitions, and the like)

 

And YES, I DO KNOW how awful that sounds. I do know it cheapens the experience. But I almost cannot blame some parents. After all, we all want just what's best for our kids. And sometimes we are wrong, but guess what...there are no do overs in life, are there.

 

[Eagledad]

I think the problem is most adults view the effort required to get Eagle as a just working a list of merit badges, not a series of experiences for developing character. So they don't understand the harm of making it easy on the scout.

 

Barry

[Beavah]

Yah, I think there's another thing in play as well, eh?

 

I think da easy advancement stuff also happens when adults really don't know the subject or material well, or don't know how to teach/mentor well.

 

When that happens, like as not they sorta go through the motions. And they feel that whether or not the lad gets da badge reflects on them, not on what the boy has learned. So they just sign, eh? That way they can point to da number of boys that have advanced or gotten the badge as their own validation. "Oh, yah, all of our boys earn First Class in a year or less" .

 

I think we'd do everyone a favor if we just prohibited MB classes. All boys interested in a MB must establish a mentoring relationship with an adult expert in da field of at least 3 months duration and at least 1 personal meeting per month.

 

Beavah

 

[SeattlePioneer]

I suspect that the model for MB Universities came from.....

 

Scout camps.

 

 

Personally, I would look to what Scout Camps do for an idea of the depth that a Merit Badge counselor should expect in terms of meeting skills.

 

That usually aint very high.

 

Of course we discuss this same thing when looking at the scoutcraft boys learn in the Trail to First Class (also taught at Scout camps to a similar depth of experience).

 

But frankly, I don't worry about that too much. I see the signoff on skills as being an introduction to the skill rather than a mastery of the skill.

 

And no, I wouldn't prohibit Merit Badge Universities. I see good people leading those classes doing their best to give boys an introduction to skills and hobbies the teachers often value highly themselves.

 

A bicycling merit badge class at MBU ought to be enough for a boy to get started doing some of the required tours, beginning with his patrol or troop, and perhaps leading to a lifelong interest in cycling. I see it as a good start, and worthwhile for that reason.

[Buffalo Skipper]

A year ago, I volunteered to be a counselor for American Heritage MB at a Winter Camp. There were three 1:45 minute sessions. I sent out a message to all scouts in advance that there were several requirements they must do at home before coming to camp. In the message, I made it clear that for requirement 5 (do ONE of the following), we would focus on "a" (watch 2 motion pictures...), that we would only have time to watch one of these at camp (The Red Badge of Courage), and that they should watch another before arriving which we would discuss. Additionally, I offered that if they wanted to do either "b" or "c", they could and I would review this with them. Finally, I strongly suggested that all scouts have a merit badge book and that they familiarize themselves with the material before arriving.

 

None of the 12 particpants took the time to watch a movie, nor could a one of them come up with a movie they had seen to qualify. None of the scouts came prepared for "b" or "c." And only one brought a book, but he admitted he had not read it.

 

I tried to create a situation where scouts could complete the requirements, but none did the necessary work to complete these requirements, and hence I signed off 12 partials. I doubt that any of them finished the badge.

 

I did not "make it easy." Nor did I make it hard. I made it clear that I expected the scout to

 

At this same camp, my son was taking the Citizenship in the World MB. It was announced in advance that req 7c would be completed at camp, but that the rest of 7 could not be completed while at camp. I encouraged my son to follow up with a different requirement before arriving, and that maybe if he presented this to the counselor, he may get credit for this. So he ended up researching the website for the US State Department (7a), and he printed off material to demonstrate his work and completion of this requirement. He presented it to the counselor, who took it, passed it around to the entire class, and credited EVERY scout with requirement 7a. He is no longer interested in attending any MB clinics, and in fact has been a bit soured to the MB process.

 

My concern is that the expectations have been set so low by many parents that the scouts have little expectation to have to really work for even the easiest badges. In an effort to prevent embarrasing themselves, some counselors my "lower the bar," or as evidenced in the above experience, credited all in the class with one scouts work.

 

I was sorely disappointed as I observed that this substandard expectation is the norm. As a result, I have no desire to participate in any further events like this in the future, either as a counselor, or by encouraging my troop scouts to attend.

[dewASM]

I am relatively new to Scouting and our boys have not attended a merit badge day but I can see why it would be appealing to both Scouts and our troop. These are some of my issues with merit badge counselors and I would be interested in if these are new issues or issues in only our area.

 

1. Council does not have a current or usable merit badge counselor list just some old binders you can leaf through and call people to see if they are willing to still do a badge. Last time I went looking for something, I found someone who is dead and someone who I know left Scouting after an issue and chooses not to be involved. So our new troop must find merit badges for everything.

 

2. After I locate someone willing to work with the boys, I have to get applications filled out with references and tell them they need to be trained. I understand why this needs to be done but it immediately makes some rethink their offer!

 

3. Then comes the question of where to meet which is compounded by our very rural area. It is not like boys can walk everywhere. And people are not comfortable inviting young men they don't know well into their homes. In this day and age, everyone is cautious - including parents who are nervous about strangers.

 

4. Then you have to coordinate work schedules of the adults, sports and scout schedules of the boys, when can parents drive, etc.

 

So I have to say, the idea of a central location with council approved counselors and a time that everyone can plan around is appealing.

 

I am also not convinced that a merit badge day necessarily means a substandard approach to a merit badge. You could work one on one with a counselor for months and still not have a good grasp of the subject. On the other hand, a few hours with a knowledgeable person who is passionate about the subject could be amazing.

 

There is more than one way to do just about everything!

[Beavah]

I see the signoff on skills as being an introduction to the skill rather than a mastery of the skill.

 

Yeh know, yeh can take training to fix that, eh?

 

Yah, dewASM, some of those are common, but they don't have to be a big deal.

 

1. Yah, that's common enough. No reason why a troop can't have a workable MB counselor list, though. Or a few troops in da area collaborate on the list.

 

2. Somewhat common, but easy enough to deal with. Send 'em the PDF, have 'em mail it in. Training isn't required, and yeh can point 'em to the online module.

 

3. In this day and age? This day and age is safer than it's ever been! I honestly have less and less patience for this nonsense, and if someone really feels that way yeh don't want 'em to be working with kids anyway because they're not emotionally stable. For da rest, meetin' at a local diner or whatnot works great. But that's the scout's job to arrange anyway.

 

4. That's also da scout's job to arrange. No need for adults to worry about it. We don't take that learning opportunity away from kids.

 

I think that generally speakin' the MB weekend things are sub par. Yeh have to remember what the BSA says officially that MB counseling is supposed to be, eh?

 

To the fullest extent possible, the merit badge counseling relationship is a counselor-Scout arrangement in which the boy is not only judged on his performance of the requirements, but receives maximum benefit from the knowledge, skill, character, and personal interest of his counselor".

 

It's hard to imagine in a one-shot class setting ever living up to the BSA's policy. How does the counselor accomplish the individual attention that's expected? How does he take time to really evaluate each boy's mastery of the skills, at least without turnin' to a boring paper and pencil test? Even an absolutely wonderful counselor can't pull that off, eh? Just not enough time.

 

Yah, I get that it's easier for da adults, and for da kid. I just have a really hard time with us shortchangin' the kids and families that way. In good scoutin' we adults do the harder thing and really work with the lads to help 'em grow.

 

I'm a big fan of the "there's more than one way to do things" school, eh? So it's sorta funny to be on da other side of it here. I just don't think we should encourage folks to compromise on the core character building values of the program.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[clemlaw]

>>>>>Training isn't required, and yeh can point 'em to the online module.

[dewASM]

Clemlaw: "I wonder what they'll make of it when they get an application out of the blue from someone interested in counseling a few obscure MB's, and who is willing to work with any Scout in the council. "

 

Oh Clemlaw, how I wished you lived in upstate NY!!!

 

Finding MB counselors has been one of the hardest parts of being a new Scoutmaster in a new troop, because so few people think like you do. And we live a very rural area which limits the talent pool.

 

[Eagle92]

Mixed emotions on MBUs. One one hand, sometimes you can get really great experts who can share their passion for the topic. And sometimes you get folks who pencil whip the Mbs. I think that there needs to be a clear expectation of what will be done at the event, and what will need to be done on their own, either prior to or after the class. i also think the class needs to be long enough to acually be meaningful.

 

Now have done Indian Lore MB at a MB College and at a day long seminar that the OA did for a fundraiser. At the MBU, I had 3 hours to teach a session. In both cases I stated what we were going to do, and what needed to be done on their own if they wanted the MB. I am going to describe what I did.

 

I said in the paperwork that they needed to do research on a tribe. Most of the scouts did that and had reports ready to turn in. They were surprised when I didn't collect them, but allowed them to discuss it with the class what they learned. I think everyone benefited from that as we had folks asking each other questions. That covered requirement 1

 

 

Now this next thing I did may not be kosher for some, but the SE was there and was impressed. Also the full blooded Apache who sat through my class b/c she wanted to know what was involved in teaching the MB was impressed and shocked to find out I'm not native. What I did was bring everything I owned related to Native Americans and had it on display. I also had everything the OA chapter had on display (one of the advantages of being the chapter adviser ) and my associate adviser brought everything he had for display. We took about 1.5 hours prior to class to turn the 2 rooms we had into a exhibit.

 

We talked about items, history, meaning etc. we definitely had more than the 10 items, and that covered requirement 2d. Now for the all day seminar, we did have time to make three items: chokers, bandoleers, and rattles. We had the time to do that, and one purpose of the seminar was to grow our dance team. So why not help them make regalia. That covered 2b. At the MBU, some scouts brought in stuff, but everyone received a handout on how to make the above items, and a few others.

 

Now we did play games, so they had to go back to their troops to teach a game. letter to the SM explained that the SM could sign off of that requirement when they did it. We also gave them info of several cookign methods.

 

 

I did 4B, learn 2 songs and explain their meaning. everyone had a chance at the chapter's drum. At the Seminar, we also taught them a few dance steps and got them dancing as well.

 

Again I think the key to having a good MBU is #1 the expectation that the MB will not be pencil-whipped, but will be earned, #2 if you don't do those items that cannot be done at the event before hand, then you will not get the MB, #3 you have to have true experts in the area. Be advised in some topics even the "experts" wont' know it all, and will say so. I know at the MBU, there were one or two questions that I did not know the details of and said so. I lucked out in that one question dealt with the Apaches, and the Apache sitting in jumped into the discussion.

[Beavah]

Yah, sounds like a great class Eagle92! Yeh certainly put a lot of time, effort, and thought into it.

 

Now I'm goin' to quibble a bit, for the sake of discussion, knowin' that you'll take it in da friendly way it is intended.

 

You put a lot of time, effort, and thought into it... but what about the boys? How much time, effort, and thought did they really put into it?

 

Yep, yeh brought a museum to them. I admire your effort. But that was your effort, eh? Perhaps, just maybe, a lad would learn more about da subject and about life by havin' to find and go to an actual museum, to collect photos and information and think about 'em himself so that he can discuss it with his counselor afterward. You know, rather than havin' his counselor discuss it with him, if yeh get my drift.

 

Now that I've got yeh thinkin', let's try another.

 

Now my guess is that for requirement one most lads wrote sorta superficial school book reports, eh? They probably didn't get into really thinkin' about the life and culture of their chosen tribe until the discussion portion of your session. That's where the adult expert really shines, eh? Helpin' that come alive for 'em. From your description yeh did a great job with that in da discussions in the class, eh? I bet it was a lot of fun.

 

Now I don't know how big your classes were, but could yeh honestly do that for each boy in the group? Spend the time to help each boy's tribe come alive? Give feedback on da research of every lad? I'm willin' to bet that some boys' research was a bit spotty da first go 'round. How many did yeh send back for more research after helpin' 'em see how to go about it?

 

Maybe yeh could if yeh had a small group, but I doubt anybody could for some of da large classes I see at these things. And there's the rub, eh? There's a difference between your level of engagement with da material as the instructor and a boy's level of engagement as one out of 25 listeners. For you, you're highly engaged and it seems great. For lad number 25 in da corner? Perhaps not as much as you, eh?

 

Did 25 lads really learn two songs in a native language, and their meaning? Yeh had each lad sing the songs on his own and explain the meaning on his own the way all of us MBC's are supposed to?

 

Or was it more like yeh taught the whole group two songs, that they then sang together or in groups, and you explained the meaning to them?

 

I think yeh did as fine a job as can be expected at these things. Still, I'm willing to bet that a lad and his buddy would have a much deeper, richer, more meaningful experience meeting with you on their own, and doin' more of the work themselves of their own initiative. Rather than havin' a great experience that they remember a few things from, they might actually become somewhat confident and experienced.

 

Now I reckon your class could be a marvelous starting point for a full MB experience. But it would be so sad if it were in fact da ending point.

 

IMHO we should leave classes to their school teachers. MB counselin' is a mentoring relationship, eh? It should be something different, more personal, and more rich.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Beavah,

 

 

I have a good deal of background in the sujects of the "American Labor" merit badge, and I was just looking over those requirements tonight.

 

Wow! I could turn that into a 5 credit college course if I had a mind to do so!

 

How much to require is the eternal question with merit badges.

 

My bias is to look for the standards set by the council itself at summer camp. I would characterize those standards as being an introduction to the subject, not mastery of it in most cases.

 

If a Scout were interested in doing or learning more, I'd be glad to accommodate him.

 

Do you find that kind of standard unreasonable or hopelessly slack?

[Lisabob]

I don't know what Beavah's answer would be, but I personally would find the "what summer camps typically do" standard to be depressingly low. Seattle, you've been around the block a time or two. I'm sure you've seen the very poor quality of MB instruction that takes place at many summer camps, especially once you get beyond the more physical badges (like shooting sports, which tend to be done better than many others in my experience).

 

I do teach college classes in some of the same areas as some of the MBs I have counseled. I don't make those MBs into mini college courses because most of the kids are not ready for that level of depth and besides, that's not the point of the MBs. But for the kids who want more depth or who want to explore certain aspects of the subject, we can certainly go there.

 

I guess I'd like to think, though, that there's a balancing point. It doesn't need to be mini college, but it shouldn't be the kind of useless pencil whipping that happens at camps too often (and frequently turns off kids to otherwise fascinating topics), either.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Lisabob,

 

 

Well, you are leading the charge to a higher standard, but even if you find some volunteers to follow you will it matter?

 

 

Your competition began with the merit badge standards set at summer camps, then that standard proliferated to Merit Badge Universities and Merit Badge classes in Scout Troops.

 

I suspect that at least in urban areas a determined Scout could find Merit Badge counselors who would offer a challenging program, but how many will seek out that experience?

 

A determined Scoutmaster might refuse to sign blue cards for merit badges at summer camp and M.B.U. and refuse to hold merit badge classes in his troop ---- but how long would it be before parents appeared with hot tar and feathers? Maybe Scouts too?

 

Frankly, this isn't my issue. My issue is having a quality experience on the "Trail to First Class" program. To me that's the heart and core of the Boy Scout program. And that's still practical to do.

 

So I'm not offended by merit badge programs that provide an introduction to the topic rather than a degree of mastery of the topic.

 

The practical way for troops to deepen the merit badge experience is to use the merit badge introduction as a springboard for the troop program into USING the merit badge skills to achieve more experience and understanding.

 

For example:

 

Have first aid problems at night in the rain with the multiple injuries one might find in a car collision.

 

Take a hike to visit the headquarters of competing political campaigns and hear their platforms for election.

 

Sit in on the bargaining session between a company and labor union and then hear from both sides on what their issues are and why they should win on those issues.

 

Good Scout troops already do that by offering "50 Milers" and such rather than just doing the minimums.

 

I suspect if a Senior Patrol Leader or Scoutmaster called around to Merit Badge counselors he could often find ideas and help in deepening the experience of Scouts in various parts of the merit badge program.