Camping Merit Badge Req 9a

[sherminator505]

I would assume the answer is no and encourage the Scouts to put together an annual program that accounts for this.

[NJCubScouter]

I have always interpreted that requirement to mean that no more than one week ("a week") of summer camp may be counted as part of the 20, meaning the other 13 or 14 nights must be on "weekend" camping trips. (I say "13 or 14" because at the summer camps we go to, a "week" runs from Sunday morning when the Scouts arrive, to around noon on Saturday, when they leave. That's six nights. I suppose that theoretically, if a Scout had gone to summer camp twice and had exactly 13 "other" nights of camping in a tent he had pitched, or under the stars, one night from the second summer camp could be counted to fill out the "week" and the 20 nights total, but I doubt the issue has ever come up because I doubt any boy has had only 13 nights of "weekend" camping when going for the Camping MB.)

 

Clemlaw, I guess every troop is different, both "then" and now. When I was a Boy Scout (both before and during the "Improved Scout Program") my troop (actually both troops, I was in two different ones in two different councils) went camping every month. (Well, probably 11 times a year, the only trip in the summer was summer camp, but that was two weeks, unlike the typical one week these days.) Two camporees and a Klondike Derby (which was always an overnight, now almost always not, in my current district) made for three district camping trips a year, and then the troop filled in the rest. The troop I currently serve (I can't call it my son's troop anymore, since he's no longer in it) goes on 10 trips a year including summer summer camp. So it's all in where you are/were and who the leaders are/were, I guess.

 

I would agree with you about attendance, though. The percentage attending trips was a lot higher back then. These days there are a lot more conflicts with other activities and a certain percentage of "I don't feel like going this month" which was a rarity in the "old days".

[bnelon44]

This came up in our council this week so I am resurrecting this old thread. I ended up writing to National for a definative answer. Here is what I received as a reply:

 

A Scout gets credit for one and only one summer camp experience applied towards Camping merit badge requirement 9a.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Ok, so if summer camp is six nights, that means 14 nights of "weekend" camping are required. In our troop, we probably average about 15 nights per year (9 or 10 weekend trips but some are one-nighters) plus the six at summer camp, so there's 21 right there. Of course, very few go on EVERY weekend trip. But even if a boy goes on half the trips, they should have the nights for Camping MB in less than two years.

 

I think most of the boys in our troop (at least those who stick around) end up with more than 100 nights camping (including summer camp.) Some do more than that, of course. This year there is one boy who is going to Philmont, a week of NYLT and one week of "regular" summer camp, so what is that, 25 nights in one summer? Of course, not all those nights count for Camping MB, but I think he's got that already anyway.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[jpstodwftexas]

And then Factor in

Canceled Outings because of Bad Weather

Factor in School Activities..Sports..Band..Math Competitions etc..

Factor in Illness

 

realistically..come on, now days it can be hard to make 20 days a year even with summer camps..

 

And think about it..why limit the length to 6 nights at summer camp..does only 6 nights out of a trek at Philmont or would you even count those nights because the Boy already camped at summer camp?

 

Yea Back in my days we camped below freezing and we still camped when it was 100*F even at night..

 

Northwest Texas Council has some extreme weather..

Been weekends where Camp Perkins instead of being by the Red River was part of the Red River.

 

Many Councils and Camps are going to Cabins to protect youths from the Extremes..

[SSScout]

Scoutson joined Troop, went to Summer Camp. Twice. A couple of weekend o/ns. Next, Philmont. Seabase (sleeping on a boat. Could that count?) . Couldn't schedule Northern Tier.

Our Yearly Meeting sponsors a summer camp program with highly trained and experienced counselors. 2, 3, or 4 week sessions. Middle School age and younger. Each week has three nights in camp, two nights on the trail, either hiking, canoe/raft. Older teens can opt for a Teen Adventure traveling camp of two weeks, either canoe/backpack or bicycling (200 miles!). Scoutson has done both Teen Adventure camps, and reported that only Philmont approached the physical challenge and personal responsibility inherent in the trips.

But he couldn't count any of that for his Camping MB, or 5o Miler, or (?)...

[CalicoPenn]

Chemyst - welcome to the forums - as you can see, you'll get lots of different answers. Sometimes, they'll even differ from what National says when they're asked the same question and folks will still doggedly insist they're right even if what they say disagrees with National.

 

My take follows National. A Scout may use one week of summer camp experience to help meet the requirements. If they intended the requirement to mean a Scout could use only summer camp camping experience to meet the requirement, they wouldn't include this clarification. Note that it is also written in such a manner that it doesn't require that one week be part of a summer camp experience - you may use one (and only one) week of summer camp, but you don't have to use any part of summer camp to meet the requirement.

 

The requirement is also pretty specific that the Scout must sleep each night under the sky or in a tent that they have pitched. It's probable that most MBCs are pretty soft on this when it comes to summer camp, but the reality is an MBC could tell a Scout who camps in tents set up by the summer camp staff that the week doesn't count since the tent wasn't set up by the camper/Scout. (The way around that? Take the tents down, fold them up, the put them back up yourselves - our Troop did that routinely at Ma-Ka-Ja-Wan - partly to make sure any Scout who was working on Camping Merit Badge wouldn't be caught up with that technicality).

 

Remember too that the requirement doesn't say "Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights since starting this Merit Badge". Most MBC's are glad to count camping nights that took place before the Scout officially started working on the Merit Badge, as long as the nights could be verified and that it was a Scouting activity.

 

Now for the esoteric - my interpretation of the requirement is that once you've used a week of long term camp to meet the requirement, no other nights at any other long term camp will count. You can't take credit for one week of summer camp then credit for 2 nights of NYLT long term camp then 2 nights of Philmont then 2 nights of next year's summer camp to build up the nights. Once you've used a long term camp, any other long term camp nights are now off limits.

[JMHawkins]

Scoutson joined Troop, went to Summer Camp. Twice. A couple of weekend o/ns. Next, Philmont. Seabase (sleeping on a boat. Could that count?)...

 

As a Camping MBC (and sailor), I'd say sleeping on the boat does not count for Camping MB if it's a typical cruising boat (galley, berths, etc.). Camping is about sleeping in a tent, hammock, under a tarp, or under the stars, and about preparing your food without anything resembling a kitchen. It's not just sleeping in a sleeping bag. Now, if it was a boat like the one in Three Men In a Boat (To Say Nothing Of the Dog), then I would count it, since that was an open skiff and J, Harris and George were really "camping."

 

Adirondaks at summer camp? Welllllll, I'd rather they were in tents, but that's probably a loosing battle since summer camps seem to be gung-ho to build adirondak shelters. For me, the problems with summer camp are that they usually don't pitch their own tent and don't cook most of their own meals (or clean up after them). Sleeping in an adirondak and eating in the mess hall is... a bit of a stretch to call that camping. But I can buy the the "only 1 week can count" compromise. Whether it was "real" camping or not, it's a great experience for the Scouts. If it counts for 1/3 of their "camping" then okay. But the other 2/3rds needs to be the real deal.

 

Or, to put it another way, a scout who earns the Camping MB ought to be perfectly capable of planning and executing at least a long weekend trip to the local campground on his own without any adults. Whether or not he's allowed to do that, he ought to be capable of it.

[BartHumphries]

The point of the requirement is that boys should be camping throughout the year, not just one week during the summer then nothing else. Also "long-term camp" has a specific meaning in Boy Scouts. It's a six-day five-night "resident" camping experience. If you go on a week-long backpacking 50-miler, moving camps every night, then it's not a long-term camp. Philmont treks aren't "long-term" or resident camping. "Under the sky" doesn't necessarily mean literally under the sky either -- a wilderness survival shelter counts too.

 

Don't get hung up on the requirement, the intent is that if your troop only ever goes on one week-long camping event a year, it's not enough. Other than that, if you're going camping multiple times a year, pretty much everything counts as long as people are really "camping" and not sleeping in a cabin.

[Tampa Turtle]

Yeah I would give our boys a pass for one week of camp in the canvas and frame on a platform tents. They usually have to tie them down a bit, put a tarp over them, adjust the rickety wooden pallets to be level, and battle spiders, mice, and raccoons waltzing in. It is enough of an adventure. Even with a dining hall we make them do some cooking.

[CalicoPenn]

Does the Camping Merit Badge book explain what is meant by a "long-term camping experience"? Oftentimes, the definitions needed to intepret the requirements are in the body of the merit badge book itself.

 

Someohow, I missed the part that said if the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you don't need to pitch your own tent so you should be ok there.

 

The requirement you've got is not the latest - the latest requirement specifies that the long-term camping experience is up to six consecutive nights.

 

Bart has mentioned the definition of resident camp - however, that definition is specific to the eligibility requirements for the Order of the Arrow - it might very well apply here, but there is nothing definitive to say that it does apply here, so it's pretty much left to the discretion of the MBC. If the MBC decides that 6 nights of camping on a Philmont Trek is a long-term camp, then it's a long-term camp - accept it, or find a new MBC.

[boomerscout]

we generally count Philmont as 12 nights as long as the tent is in a different place each night. Of course, by the time they get to Philmont, they probably have more than 20 nights

[bnelon44]

By the way the definition, "A Scout gets credit for one and only one summer camp experience applied towards Camping merit badge requirement 9a." Came from one of the people at national who authored the requirement.

 

Here is the requirement again:

9. Show experience in camping by doing the following:

a. Camp a total of at least 20 nights at designated Scouting activities or events. One long-term camping experience of up to six consecutive nights may be applied toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

[JMHawkins]

Does the Camping Merit Badge book explain what is meant by a "long-term camping experience"?

 

I just checked (2010 printing) and there's no definiton of "long-term camp." But since it does sepcifically mention Summer Camp, I'll use that as the reference. If it looks and quacks like Summer Camp - sleeping in tents or structures that someone else put up, eating in dining halls most days - then it's "long-term camp" for me.

 

 

[bnelon44]

The terms "Long term camping" and "Short term camping" are defined in the Language of Scouting http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/LOS/All.aspx

 

This is the "go to" place for all Scouting terms. This reference is the Boy Scouts of America's definitive resource on terms and style specific to Scouting and this organization.