Camping Merit Badge Req 9a

[chemyst]

The requirement reads: 9a.Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent.

 

Can a Scout count more than one week of summer camp for this requirement?

[dg98adams]

That's a no, otherwise it would be, "feel free to use as many weeks of long-term camp"....

 

Okay that's snarky, and I apologize.

 

But really. whatever camping done long term (i.e. week long of summer camp, Jambo, hi-adventure, etc...), the most days/nights you could possibly read into that would be 7, since a week is 7 days long.

 

This has been rehashed several times.

 

 

[clemlaw]

IMHO, it is ambiguous, and probably intentionally so.

 

That sentence might relate to the first sentence, in which case it is implicitly saying "you may not use more than a week" to satisfy the 20 nights. But that's not what it says. In a sense, it's surplussage, since it permits something that the preceeding sentence doesn't prohibit.

 

It really makes more sense to group it with the final sentence. If read this way, then the whole paragraph says that up to seven of the nights may be in an already pitched tent, but by jove, the other 13 nights need to be in a tent that you pitched yourself, no matter what.

 

Because of the ambiguity, I would say that the counselor can use a little bit of common sense in the interpretation.

 

For example, let's say that we have a gung-ho troop that has decided that, instead of merely going camping for one weekend per month, they will go on a week long camping trip every month. The gung-ho members of the troop thus camp 84 nights per year, since every last one of them goes on every last camping trip.

 

If you read the rules a little bit too literally, these scouts will never get Camping MB, because they spend too much time camping.

 

IMHO, this should rarely be an issue, because most scouts who are even halfway active should have 13 nights of camping under their belts by the time they get around to finishing off the MB. If, by some fluke, one of them only had 12 nights, in addition to a couple of weeks of summer camp, then I would have no qualms about signing him off (assuming he pitched his own tent at least 13 of those nights).

[Beavah]

Yah, chemyst, welcome to da forums, eh?

 

The interpretation of da merit badge requirements is left to the registered merit badge counselor, who should do his best to ensure that the boy has learned the skills and is proficient in them. "A Scout badge recognizes what a boy is able to do, it is not a reward for what he has done" accordin' to the BSA.

 

Most of us Camping MB counselors would expect an active scout in an active program to have quite a few more days and nights of camping than the minimum 20, in order to really develop the skills to meet all da other requirements. But sometimes yeh get a lad who has done a lot of camping with other organizations or with his family.

 

I personally would interpret the requirement to allow for only one week of Boy Scout summer camp, with the whole big canvas tent thing that they probably haven't pitched. In order to build da necessary skills for the rest of the MB requirements, they need to have set up their own nylon tent in a variety of different conditions, times of year, etc. However, like clemlaw says, if there was another week of a high adventure backpack or canoe trek that moved camp every night, I'd probably allow that.

 

But it's up to da honor of the merit badge counselor to see that the requirements are fulfilled and the lad has really learned.

 

Beavah

 

[jackmessick]

The phrases about a tent you have pitched and even that it must be a Scouting trip have been added in the last 30 years to clarify this requirement (That they must all be Scouting trips was actually added within the last 10 years). so the spirit of the requirement, since Summer Camp is usually 5 or 6 nights, is that the other 14 or 15 nights camping must be short term, overnight, 2 night, 3 night, or 4 night trips.

 

I have given grace to some Scouts, crediting one night of camping for things like the second year of summer camp or for NYLT, if they are otherwise close. But, totally by the book, I am probably doing wrong with that.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I have always read this as described above, so I am not arguing that fact. But I guess I have to question WHY this is such an issue. Out of 19 scouts who have been in the troop for one year or more, all but 2 have met this requirement. One did not attend summer camp last year, and the other is just 1 campout short. Another, who joined in June has 16 days and will likely meet the 20 before his 1 year anniversery.

I had one scout come up to me concerned that he had not met the requirement before meeting with his counselor. He had been in the troop since October 09, after transferring from another troop which he was in for a year and a half. I did not have the previous troop records, but with only 1 summer camp with us (and discounting the 13 at the NJ), he had 47 nights. This includes OA activities, and 2 contingent NJ troop weekends (one of which caused him to miss the troop campout). I guess it is a culture that this is hard to do.

 

We camp 2 nights on every campout, and don't leave until after lunch on Sunday. I guess if a troop were only to camp Saturday night (1 night each month), this could be an issue.

 

If the troop is active, this should be easy for most every scout.

[Eamonn]

I'm very much with Buffalo Skipper.

There is no time limit given. It doesn't say at least 20 days and 20 nights within a year.

Scouts have a very long time to meet this requirement.

So what's the rush?

Ea.

 

[bshealy]

I also interpret it as only one week at summer camp allowed. We have a very active troop so this is not generally a problem.

 

BUT, here's a question -- If the summer camp had scouts in "Adirondacks," would it count for the Camping MB?

[Eamonn]

" If the summer camp had scouts in "Adirondacks," would it count for the Camping MB?"

Reading the words of the requirements, I'd say no.

But the final word is whatever the MBC has to say.

 

I might add that if I ruled the world!

I really don't think 20 nights is enough.

I'd like to see it read 20 nights after reaching First Class Scout.

But that's just me.

Ea.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

Interesting comment, bshealy.

 

 

That suggests that you might allow a second week at summercamp if a troop didn't have much of a camping program and that fact would make it difficult to complete the camping requirement under a more strict interpretation.

 

Suppose that a troop does no camping but summer camp. A Scout from the troop brings twelve days of camping to you as Merit Badge counselor together with occasional camping with the Order of the Arrow to get twenty days.

 

I'd accept that. For a Scout who was in your "active" troop, probably not.

 

I see no reason why a Merit Badge counselor can't look at a situation and treat Scouts as individuals.

[Eagle92]

Seattle,

 

 

I'd have problems with it, but even more with a troop that isn't camping. When I saw the new JTE requirements state a minimum of 4 campouts a year, I was shocked. "ScOUTING is OUTING." as GBB once said I'd see a problem with a troop that isn't a 'hiking and camping" troop.

[shortridge]

Suppose that a troop does no camping but summer camp.

 

Then it's not a troop. It's a joke.

 

Even troops made up entirely of inner-city Scouts who live miles away from "wilderness" manage to go camping year-round. Even Scouts with substantial developmental and physical abilities manage to go camping year-round. There's no excuse for not doing it.

[Oak Tree]

I interpret it that one week of summer camp is permitted, regardless of whether the the Scouts pitched their own tent or were in an adirondack. But no more than one week.

 

I agree it's up to the counselor, but in practice, many counselors ask me for my interpretation of any gray-area requirements.

[clemlaw]

>>>>>>When I saw the new JTE requirements state a minimum of 4 campouts a year, I was shocked.

[BrentAllen]

If a Scout only went camping at Summer Camp, I would think he would have a hard time completing 9b to earn the badge.