Personal Management MB

[penst8]

After serving in various leadership positions over the years, I've decided to become a MB counselor. I'm looking at about 5 MB's but I've already applied to be a Personal Management counselor.

 

How do you handle the personal budget for Scouts that don't receive an allowance? The area where I live is not very well off. Some of the boys in my son's Troop are dealing with one or both parents being laid off. Some families have both parents working but are still just getting by.

 

I can foresee some Scouts really having difficulty completing the budget. It could be rather awkward trying to differentiate between the Scouts that are dealing with a financial hardship and those that didn't make an effort. I don't want to embarrass a scout, his family or me while conducting this MB class.

 

I'm sure there are also Scouts that don't receive an allowance or have a job which would limit their ability to fully complete the personal budget.

 

Anyone been through this or have suggestions for handling the no income scouts?

 

Thanks.

[Stosh]

I am a PM MB counselor and those boys that don't have allowances I deal with differently than most.

 

What I have the boys do is budget the value of what they are "spending" during the course of a day. For example, if their parents have paid for their school lunch the boy notes in his budget/journal that $3.00 is marked down has having been spent for his lunch even if he never saw the actual cash. If he needs new socks, he puts it in his journal even if mom/dad pays for it. If he gets an allowance, he deals with that as well. This way the boy gets to know what it costs him to get from one day to the next even if he doesn't actually see the cash in the mean time.

 

I do this every day of my life. I have direct deposit and a debit card. Do I ever have cash in my pocket? Not very often. If I looked at cash only, I would only be spending about $2,000/year to live. I know from experience that not everything is viewed in cash terms. Go with the value system instead, the boy will quickly realize how much value passes "through his hands" for his welfare.

 

If he gets a $5.00/wk allowance and dad takes him to the ballgame, it would be valuable to the boy to know just how much dad spent on his ticket, treats and souvenirs on his behalf even if the boy didn't use his allowance in the mean time. It's kinda like looking at a business' operations by looking at more than just the petty cash account.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[SR540Beaver]

Just a suggestion and I know there will be some who jump on me for this, but our SM limits who and when this MB can be taken. He take personal managment seriously and wants the boys to understand budgeting, spending and saving. If he has an 11 or 12 year old wanting to take it, he won't sign off as he feels they won't fully grasp the material and that it will benefit them to take it around 15 or 16 instead. He is a tough taskmaster on this MB and some boys in the troop look for an "easier" MB counselor. He is OK with that, but he still won't approve it until they are older. Instead of using real life of allowances of having a job, he uses a series of spreadsheets where he gives the scout a "life". It presents them with how much income they have and then they have to budget their money, save money, meet obligations and make decisions about purchases with expendable cash. They have to enter it all on the spreadsheet and submit it to hom before he unlocks the next week for them to work. They often don't get it right the first time. But I will say this since my son did it a couple of years ago, now that he has a job and a vehicle payment, insurance, upkeep, etc., what he learned in that MB has been invaluable. Had he taken it at 12 instead of 15, I don't think it would have had the same impact.

[momof2cubs]

SR540: that's BRILLIANT!!! I don't suppose he'd be willing to share that spreadsheet? Seems awesome!

[Venividi]

SR540,

 

I would hope that no one would jump on you for describing how the SM of your son's troop adheres to the MB program. Its a SM's responsibility to know scouts sufficiently well to guide them to appropriate MB's for their maturity level. It is great that he cares enough about the skills that the scouts take away from the troop that he uses the MB process as it is intended.

 

Only advice I would offer up is to refer to "maturity level" rather than "age". The two typically track closely to such an extent that when people use age as a criteria, they often really mean maturity.

 

[Twocubdad]

Family finances shouldn't have anything to do with it -- especially if it's to the point you're uncomfortable talking with a Scout about it.

 

I'm with Beaver on this. If the only possibility of income a Scout has is his allowance, he shouldn't be working on Personal Management. The real solution is for the Scoutmaster to exercise his descretion in issuing blue cards in these situations. If you are counseling the MB for a specific troop, you need to be talking with the SM to reach an understand about this. If you are a multi-troop, district counselor, you need to have this conversation with the district advancement chairman. Personally, if either of them told me their expectation was than any Scout could earn the MB, even with a 0-0-0 budget, I would counsel another MB.

 

The 11-year-old view of this MB (or worse yet, an 11-year-old's parent's view) is "gee, I don't have an allowance so that really makes this requirement easy." Yeah, if your intent is to complete the merit badge come-what-may, you can meet the letter of the requirement by proposing a 0-0-0 budget,or even showing $5 allowance, zero expenses, $5 savings. But I would say that's disingenuous at best and totally subverts the intent and purpose of what is in no small part the guts of the merit badge.

 

By high school, kids understand the social economics of pocket money. That your mom bought you a ticket to the movies doesn't help if what you really want is to buy the cute girl from geometry class a Coke and box of Junior Mints. Or if you want to show off your prowless in Black Ops to you buddies in the arcade. That's real. What you want to do is take that real experience and get a young man to see the long (or at least 13 week) view of it. Your buddies and the girl from geometry will be REALLY impressed if you show up driving your own wheels a couple years from now.

 

If a kid is getting five bucks from his dad and stuffing it in his piggy, the requirement may as well be to play a game of Risk or Monopoly with your counselor.

[boomerscout]

"Anyone been through this or have suggestions for handling the no income scouts?"

yes, you need to tell them to go Scout for work. The income will be sporadic - just like a salesman's, or a free-lancer. Depending on where they live, they can mow lawns, shovel drives, watch kids, run errands, scavenge deposit bottles, wax cars, find stuff to repair and resell, bag groceries -- the list is endless

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Boomer,

 

In my neck of the woods, in the current Depression, there are Scouts whose odd job income is part of the family budget.

 

That Mom and Dad are allocating funds from what the young man brings to the family for dues, a uniform shirt and the monthly campout is a bit of a sacrifice to the family.

 

So yes, penst8's question has merit.

[boomerscout]

"So yes, penst8's question has merit."

 

and I answered it! Penst8's question was what to do when the Scouts do not get an allowance. All his odd jobs go onto the income side of the budget. Money he turns over to the family counts as an expense. If he can hold back a dime a week, then he has something for the savings part.

Such a Scout will probably do a better job than most, as he will have a more visceral understanding than his peers of rent, utility bills, groceries.

Discussing that big ticket purchase with his family may help the parents as well.

Dues, uniform shirt, camp fees? You guys don't fundraise?

[clemlaw]

>>>>I don't want to embarrass a scout, his family or me while conducting this MB class.

[qwazse]

My PM counselor was a bank VP, and to this day I remember meeting him at his desk at the bank and going over the MB. It was very impactful.

 

I wouldn't put a bottom age on the req. Especially with a scout whose family is in financial straights. His self-discipline with $$'s may be a big help to the family.

[John-in-KC]

boomer,

 

How in the Sam Hill can units fundraise when the potential purchasers are saying "Sorry, we cannot afford that?"

 

GET REAL. THE ECONOMY SUCKS. The stuff Scouts sell is discretionary income stuff, and families don't have discretionary income right now.

 

I know inner-city units in my neck of the woods that are not going to Scout Camp at all this year ... the kids are needed at home working to buy food and pay the rent.

 

This is the 3d year running my Council has kept its FOS goal for the family campaign flat. THE ECONOMY SUCKS, THE MONEY KIDS EARN GOES DIRECTLY TO THE FAMILY BOTTOM LINE.

[boomerscout]

That's one reason we don't do door-to-door fundraisers. There are non-selling fundraisers.

A fundraiser bridging selling/non-selling is having a carwash at the nearest big box. A properly run carwash should bring in a min. of $450.00. Other service type fundraising exists, as discussed on the fundraising thread.

For their personal spending money, we push Rent-a-Scout. They seem to earn enough; they may have to travel 3 miles on the bus or bicycle to get to the job. As self-employed businessmen they can be any age

Our weekend campouts are free, except for district camporees, because we trade our labor in a conservation project for the farmer or woodlot owner, sometimes for the park authority. The only cost to each is to bring the food from home they were going to eat anyway. The troop does give gas money to each driver.

We aren't bothering with uniforms right now except at CofH. If there are no shirts in the uniform closet, they borrow a shirt from someone not getting an award that night.

 

[Horizon]

In my Troop, we have several different levels of income:

 

1) Wealthy family, nice allowance, plenty of family cash gifts. Scout saves, sometimes invests, and purchases games for his personal computer.

2) Wealthy family, no allowance. All needs are directly covered by the parents.

3) Poor family, minimal allowance.

3) Poor family, no allowance.

 

Each one forces a different discussion. Now let us talk of jobs. There is a fair amount of academic research on working while in school. There is a strong correlation between working and having worse grades, though some argue that this is just correlation, and that the grades were pre-determined due to other factors. Telling a Scout that they MUST get a job can run into conflict with the parents who want their Scout focusing on academics, not working for minimum wage. My own son has an hour bus each way, 2 hours of homework, 2 hours of athletic practice, and Scouting (Sea and Dirt). He does not have time for a job if he is to keep his grades up.

 

Requirement 2 is one of the requirements that needs a review under local circumstances and current environment. Do we follow the letter, the intent, both?

 

Refresher:

2.Do the following:

a. Prepare a budget reflecting your expected income (allowance, gifts, wages), expenses, and savings. Track your actual income, expenses, and savings for 13 consecutive weeks. (You may use the forms provided in this pamphlet, devise your own, or use a computer generated version.) When complete, present the results to your merit badge counselor.

b. Compare expected income with expected expenses.

1. If expenses exceed income, determine steps to balance your budget.

2. If income exceeds expenses, state how you would use the excess money (new goal, savings).

 

Now, a Scout could say that they expect zero income, and zero direct expenses. They might follow the letter, but would miss out on the intent. This is when the spreadsheet exercise comes into play perhaps.

 

A Scout might also have minimal income, or just enough to pay for lunch. If their lunch is a fixed plan (same amount every day), they won't have much to track either. Again, they follow the letter of the requirement, but without good input from their Counselor they won't learn the critical lessons.

 

Telling a Scout they can't take the badge until they are older or have a job is adding the requirements. It is our job as Scouters to work with each Scout based on their personal situation.

[Carter]

On 2/21/2011 at 3:22 PM, SR540Beaver said:

Just a suggestion and I know there will be some who jump on me for this, but our SM limits who and when this MB can be taken. He take personal managment seriously and wants the boys to understand budgeting, spending and saving. If he has an 11 or 12 year old wanting to take it, he won't sign off as he feels they won't fully grasp the material and that it will benefit them to take it around 15 or 16 instead. He is a tough taskmaster on this MB and some boys in the troop look for an "easier" MB counselor. He is OK with that, but he still won't approve it until they are older. Instead of using real life of allowances of having a job, he uses a series of spreadsheets where he gives the scout a "life". It presents them with how much income they have and then they have to budget their money, save money, meet obligations and make decisions about purchases with expendable cash. They have to enter it all on the spreadsheet and submit it to hom before he unlocks the next week for them to work. They often don't get it right the first time. But I will say this since my son did it a couple of years ago, now that he has a job and a vehicle payment, insurance, upkeep, etc., what he learned in that MB has been invaluable. Had he taken it at 12 instead of 15, I don't think it would have had the same impact.

Any chance this could be shared? We have many scouts just like others here have mentioned that do not have an income for various reasons. Instead of creating the wheel from scratch it would be nice to have something that works as an alternative that will teach the boys more about real world finances.