Revoke Eagle Scout Rank

[UCEagle72]

RRR3 --

 

Why do you ask?

 

[desertrat77]

Moosetracker, I saw the same documentary, and I was too profoundly appalled at what happened. Unbelievable long-term failure of adult leadership--scouting, civic, and parental.

 

Interesting side note re two deep leadership: at a council I served at a couple years ago, I saw an old black/white photo of from the '50s--showed some commissioners or executives standing next to an blackboard that tracked alot of the data we study today, including a column entitled "two deep leadership"--looked like it tracked the percent of troops meeting that standard. Like many things, having a standard and enforcing it are two different things. Or they were seeking to have two adults registered, not sure. Either way, two deep leadership wasn't really enforced until the early '90s, if memory serves. I thinks it's one of the best initiatives National has pushed.

 

As for the subject at hand, I'm sure there is a method to revoke Eagle, but hardly worth the trouble unless there are extreme circumstances like murder and the like. Yes, I'm well aware of the tarnish that wayward Eagles bring, but like any part of society, Eagles run the gamut from good to bad. Their actions throughout life show whether they really embraced the scout oath and law.

 

And where would the line be for revocation? Bounced checks? Dead beat dad? Bar brawl? Imprisonment? All good questions. And then the resources needed to review, process, defend, etc., a revocation request would probably be substantial.

 

Suffice to say, at one time in life, before their misbehavior or crime or both, the Eagle met the standards and National okayed it. A moment in history. Living up to the ideal is a lifetime commitment.

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

"rat,

It was in the 88-89 range. I remember it was time for my physical, the old part 1-2 good for 3 years if under 40y.o, and I remember that I was shocked to see our committee chair in the room with our physician ASM. I remember askign why, being told the new 2 deep thing, and commenting that yeah we had to reallly worry about Doc with his 10 kids and 1 on the way.

[desertrat77]

Eagle92, thanks for the clarity! As a unit level leader in the '80s, I'd see troops at camporees and summer camp with only 1 adult--not frequently, but often enough. Glad that's in the past. As a scout in the '70s, one troop I was in always had just 1 adult, the SM. A kindly gent, but did nothing to reign in his son, who was the PL of the new scouts (of which I was one) and quite a bully and just a donkey in general. We endured this PL's nonsense but looking back, it sure would have been nice to have another adult to keep things in check. Two deep leadership won't solve every leadership ill, but it's a great step in the right direction.

[John-in-KC]

Since the threads have been moved together, and one closed, I'm going to shift my comment to here, and expand on it:

 

First, the OP made 2 posts and then went away. An internet board is good for generalities, but the specific situation he/she seeks guidance on needs facts.

 

Second, with that said:

 

The OP needs to visit with his Commissioner, COR, DE, and the District Advancement Chair. They are local on the ground, and can assist the OP in the matter involving the young man in question, whatever it be. I have seen membership in the Boy Scouts of America, both youth and adult, revoked from the local Council, and affirmed at the National Council. I have not seen award of a rank revoked.

 

The following words from Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088, although applying to appeals of award of rank, may be instructive:

A decision at either level finding in favor of the Scout shall be final. Units have no right of appeal of a decision.

 

To me, that implies: If a unit disagrees with an Eagle Scout about any number of matters after award, the local and National Councils aren't going to do much regarding the rank. They can, and they have, done a fair bit regarding membership.

 

This is all preliminary information. The OP has chosen not to share with us the facts of the matter at hand. We can point him/her to indicators, but we cannot help much further unless we speculate. I think many of us who are regulars here have learned the hard way speculation is not fun and does not work well.

[hendrickms24]

 

I'm not sure what the issue is about revoking Eagle Scout Rank. I really think revoking it is a meaningless act. I earned Eagle Scout twenty years ago and if it was revoke for some reason it would not phase me one bit. I earned it and it was important to me at the time and you can't take that away. So what are you trying to prove by revoke it?

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Why was Reggie Bush asked to return his Heisman Trophy?

[nolesrule]

Reggie Bush had not been asked to return the Heisman trophy at the time that he relinquished it. The Heisman Trophy Trust investigation of the situation was still underway at that time. While it's possible/probable/likely he may have been asked at some point in the future, we'll never know.

[CalicoPenn]

Reggie Bush returned his Heisman Trophy before the trustees voted to strip him of the award because of improprieties in accepting certain assistance that in turn made him ineligible, under NCAA rules, to compete the year he won the trophy. If you're ineligible to compete in the first place, you can't win the Heisman Trophy.

 

In context of this discussion, the loss of the Heisman Trophy is only germaine to the revocation of the Eagle Scout badge if the person was ineligible to receive the badge (didn't have all of the required merit badges, didn't meet time-in on POR) or if the Eagle Scout had done something illegal to earn the badge (note the distinction - I'm not saying doing something illegal in itself is enough - I'm saying doing something illegal to help him earn the badge (like having a keg party to raise funds) would be comparative to the Heisman being taken away.

[hendrickms24]

It might just be me but think having or ask Reggie Bush to return

his Heisman Trophy is just as pointless.

(This message has been edited by hendrickms24)

[John-in-KC]

RRR3,

 

Read your PM.

 

I'm going to pass it on to twp other people here, whom I respect.

 

Here's what I think: You had from the day the boy joined your Troop to his Life BOR to work on his character. What you described did not happen overnight, it developed slowly over time.

 

Had you refused to give him a Scoutmaster Conference for Eagle at all, ... well, go look for a thread we did about 18 months ago. It's 50 pages long. I would hope you had your act together with comments and notes following him up the line, because refusing a Conference is an appealable event.

 

Had you refused to endorse his Eagle Application, again I hope you had your act together with comments and notes, because that also is an appealable event.

 

Had the EBOR failed to advance him, well, I don't know. Much would depend on what was given him at the time.

 

What I do know is that what he requested was within his rights. It's his ECOH. When my son earned Eagle, he was in a pool with 7 other boys, all HS classmates together. They, and us as their parents, made the decisions about structure, location, and on and on.

 

The time to mold behavior is constantly from joining on. Dying on the hilltop at the ECOH is not one of the good ideas of life. That battle happened for things that happened 3-6 years earlier.

 

No, that Eagle is his, like it or not. Look to how you implement the Ideals and the Adult Association Methods in the future.

[SeattlePioneer]

A good ceremony should mark each significant milestone in a Scouts Scouting History.

 

What kind of ceremony might mark the revocation of an Eagle award?

 

Perhaps we could look to the military, or at least television, for some dramatic ideas:

 

 

[Frank17]

OP is gone, and only posted to start the thread anyway. Time to move on.

[clemlaw]

He probably expected an answer like, "fill out form 12333-Z in triplicate and mail it to Irving." Instead, he got a philosophical discussion of which levels of murder would be appropriate for filling out that form.

 

I suspect no murder was involved in this particular case.

[skeptic]

Directly from the actual Rules and Regulations; found while looking for any specifics regarding actually wearing the uniform. Could not find "any", other than referencing other publications. But, this certainly seems to deal directly with the question in this thread.

 

"Protection and Use of Badges and Insignia; National Rules and Regulations.

 

 

Clause 9: All badges and insignia shall remain the property of

the Boy Scouts of America subject to recall for cause by the

Corporation or its duly authorized representative."