Board of Review turns scout down- how to move forward?

[BadenP]

All of this melodrama I think goes to prove a couple of things, first and foremost a parent should NEVER be allowed to sign off their own childs boy scout requirements even if they are the SM, ASM, CC or whatever because it can lead to misunderstanding, personal prejudice or bias, ethical issues, and it can lead to a great deal of disharmony in the troop. You have other leaders in the troop that there is never a need for a parent to directly work with their own child.

 

Secondly, it sounds to me that the adults have too much influence and control in this troop stifling the development of a solid patrol method where the BOR's could be handled by the PLC and SM. As Kudu would say we have strayed way off the path that Baden Powell developed for us to follow way back when.

[sherminator505]

What changed?

 

More specifically, what did the Scout do differently between his advancement to Star and his attempted advancement to Life? Or how did the BOR operate differently between the Star BOR and the Life BOR?

 

The reason I'm asking is that this is not the Scout's first experience with a BOR beyond First Class, or serving in a position of responsibility, or having to demonstrate Scout Spirit within the confines of a BOR. Something had to change to create this outcome.

[FScouter]

There may be some good reasons why an adult leader should not sign off requirements for his/her son as was pointed out by BadenP. More to the point though is that any person signing must do so in a responsible manner. The Scoutmaster is well advised to consider carefully whom he authorizes to sign, and monitor the process.

 

In this particular case there has been nothing presented that the parent signed any requirement, thus in this case the boys BOR problems have nothing to do with that. If rank requirements are not completed properly or completely, the solution is not to eliminate parent leaders from signing. Re-train the person(s), parent or otherwise that are not doing a good job. BSA does not preclude a parent from signing off rank requirements.

 

Separately from all this is that a troop can have a strong patrol method and good use of the Patrol Leaders Council. Its not dependent on PLC and SM run boards of review. BSA discontinued that practice many years ago with good reason.

[BadenP]

 

"A troop can have a strong patrol method and good use of a PLC, it is not dependent on the PLC and SM to run BOR's."-FScouter

 

Excuse me Frank but since when has a scout troop supposed to be adult run instead of boy run? BP set the program up this way originally, the SM and older boys mentored the younger ones and signed off their books. Now we have parents and committee members and other adults with limited to no knowledge of the program signing off requirements on things they know little about, how is that better? Who knows these boys skills and scout spirit better than the SM and troop leaders? Your premise and statement is clearly false since a properly run troop would not have these kind of issues popping up and adults taking improper actions and liberties in the advancement of the boys. Maybe it is high time for the BSA to reevaluate the structure and methods of how a BOR should be run. This troop in question has some serious problems in the way the troop program is being run and delivered.

[Eagledad]

>>Maybe it is high time for the BSA to reevaluate the structure and methods of how a BOR should be run.

[acco40]

All of this melodrama I think goes to prove a couple of things, first and foremost a parent should NEVER be allowed to sign off their own childs boy scout requirements even if they are the SM, ASM, CC or whatever because it can lead to misunderstanding, personal prejudice or bias, ethical issues, and it can lead to a great deal of disharmony in the troop. You have other leaders in the troop that there is never a need for a parent to directly work with their own child.

 

When I was the Scoutmaster, I had an SA do the SMC for both of my son's except for the Eagle rank (that is a slightly different type of SMC). However, when they served as SPL, I didn't delegate my Scoutmaster responsibility (maybe I should have in retrospect) but the balance is to maintain consistency (same Scoutmaster) but also not have a father/son relationship between the SM/SPL. It was difficult. For son #1, it worked out great. For son #2, it was a disaster.

 

Now, how does one answer one's son when he feels that every Scout in the troop get the program delivered one way except for him?

 

For Scout run BORs, they would have certain advantages but I think they have a harder time with peer pressure than the adults. I'd like to see possible BORs for T- 1st Class by the Scouts and BORs for Star - Eagle run by adults.

[FScouter]

If a troop is having internal difficulties in operating the program, and if those difficulties are caused by as you say "parents and committee members and other adults with limited to no knowledge of the program signing off requirements on things they know little about", then I'd say the wrong people were selected. Train them or replace them.

 

If the Scoutmaster refuses to authorize boys to teach rank requirments and to sign them off, and instead uses parents with no knowledge, the solution to that has nothing to do with boards of review.

[John-in-KC]

Mike,

 

What you just said is disturbing indeed. You've shown a big caution signal. Invite your Unit Commissioner to your next Committee meeting. As part of your scoutmaster report, have him talk about the model Board of Review, including when matters go awry.

 

I often advocate the SPL attend Committee and render the program elements of the SM report. This is a time NOT to do that, indeed, keeping youth far away from this Committee meeting sounds prudent to me

[mikecummings157]

Folks- again, thanks to everyone for the feedback. I've received new ideas and reinforcement for some of my own thoughts.

 

Just to fill in a few blanks, we do not allow any a parent to sign off his son's book, so in this case dad did not approve any requirements.

 

We do run patrol method and have an active PLC that plans and runs the troop program, under the guidance of myself and the ASM's.

 

Also, this is the 1st BOR this scout had gone through with this troop. He had transferred to our troop after a few years in another troop in our area. It is possible that the other troop had a slightly different approach to BOR's. However, he clearly should have been able to stand on his own two feet, as someone pointed out, during this BOR.

 

The biggest issue is how to learn from this and move forward. I did speak to our District Commisioner last night and he agreed with one of the suggestions that we conduct some training on BOR's within the troop. As SM, I can only suggest this, and there may be some resistance from some of the longtime committee members.

[Beavah]

Also, this is the 1st BOR this scout had gone through with this troop. He had transferred to our troop after a few years in another troop in our area.

 

Ah, the lightbulb comes on!

 

Nuthin' yeh can do about this, mikecummings157. If your troop is workin' fine for the rest of your boys, it's not worth your time.

 

There's a very simple reality. A boy who transfers from a badge-mill program to one that is not a badge mill program at the upper (Star/Life/Eagle) ranks is guaranteed to have this happen. Same with a lad who transfers from an adult-led to a youth-led program. Even happens for a lad who transfers from a troop where some bullyin' goes on to one where bullyin' is treated as a capital offense.

 

Lads who are S/L/E are pretty set in their ways and what they expect scouting to be, eh? That's why even within a troop it's hard to get the older fellows to change. When a troop is shifting back toward boy-led from adult-led, yeh often have to focus on the younger boys, and the older boys will resist the change.

 

No different here. A lad who has learned scouting in a program where a BOR will rubber stamp him if he's breathing is goin' to feel his notion of scoutin' success has been betrayed when he comes across a BOR that cares enough about him and his growth to say "hey, you can do better."

 

I've seen it over and over and over again. Transfers between troops for older boys are just hard. Yeh really have to take extra care to find a program that "fits" what they're familiar with, or it just doesn't work.

 

So I wouldn't sweat it, beyond being more thoughtful and up-front about your program when talkin' to potential older scout transfers.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)