When do you take the scouts word?

[evmori]

Well, NJ, I don't think it's necessary to force people to use a teaching method they might not understand or want to use.

[NJCubScouter]

But Ed, you yourself (unless you were quoting someone else and I didn't realize it) said: "EDGE is nothing more than basic teaching principles the BSA has been using for decades with a fancy new acronym." If its just the same old thing with a fancy new acronym, I don't understand what the problem is.

[moosetracker]

NJScouter - some of us I don't think evmori nor I have a problem with it. It is just we don't have a problem with other teaching methods or styles either. Some of us are just plain neutral.

 

For me:

Should the scouts learn how to teach and train? "Yes, absolutely.. It is essential they learn if they are to become true leaders."

Do I mind if EDGE is the style that BSA wants to introduce? "No, up to a point. Everyone should look at all different types and styles. So BSA introducing EDGE as a method of teaching is not a bad thing. But, if they want to cram it down someones throat that it is the only good way to teach. Then I have a problem. Because there are many good ways to teach. And sometimes give the person, or the pubil EDGE may just not be a good way to teach at all."

 

Introduce the concept, but then introduce other concepts, expose us to a whole rainbow of concepts so that we have the ability to pick the one that suits us, or take parts & pieces from various styles and create our own unique style. If you do this, then you will have developed a really great teacher.

 

Lets pull back from EDGE which is "teaching you to teach" and just look at what it is to teach.. Isn't introducing a whole host of concepts so that the student can choose the best solution for themselves.. So that you train someone to be an independent thinker the best type of teacher to have?

 

So why wouldn't offering different teaching styles and allowing someone a choice to develop their own training style develop the best type of teacher?

[NJCubScouter]

moosetracker asks:

 

So why wouldn't offering different teaching styles and allowing someone a choice to develop their own training style develop the best type of teacher?

 

It's a reasonable question. Maybe they were trying to keep things simple for the mostly 10-14 year olds who are going to be doing the "teaching." (I picked the most typical age range from kids who are going for Tenderfoot, up to kids who are going for Life, and sure there are a few Star scouts older than that but not a huge number.) So instead of just saying "teach", or trying to compress the first couple of years of undergraduate teaching school (with different teaching methods) down into a couple of handbook pages for 11 year olds (etc.) to try to figure out, they picked one method. What surprises me is that this method seems to be controversial. As I and others have said in the now-proliferating series of threads on this subject, it is really not much more than a repackaging of methods that have been around for many years, even before the dreaded 70's.

[JMHawkins]

And the OP has a valid complaint. The requirement states "teach someone" not "teach someone only when the SM is available to watch" Shrubber's SM is adding to the requirements by requiring a Scout to do this teaching so they can watch.

 

But it seems to me that underlying everything is the notion that, as Beavah said, the Scout becomes proficient at the skill. So, regardless of who the Scout originally taught, it seems perfectly reasonable for the SM to ask that the Scout demonstrate how he did it. If he really is proficient at teaching a square knot, it won't be a problem. If he's not able to do it a second time, he still needs to work at it. The goal isn't to plaster his uniform with a bunch of patches after all.

 

But I have another question. Who is he going to teach it to? Or rather, how should the Troop or Patrol make sure he has the opportunity to teach it to someone who doesn't know how to tie a square knot? To my way of thinking, it's not in the spirit of the requirement to have him "teach" the SM or the SPL - he really should teach someone who doesn't know how to tie it.

 

So... invite a Bear Den from the local Cub Scout Pack in and help them with Achievement 22?

 

(and of course, while they're doing that, the older Scouts can be practicing setting up tents or doing First Aid or something else that looks really cool and exciting to the Bears.)

[evmori]

So, regardless of who the Scout originally taught, it seems perfectly reasonable for the SM to ask that the Scout demonstrate how he did it.

 

The requirement doesn't state demonstrate. It says teach. There are requirements that state demonstrate. This isn't one of them.

 

[Engineer61]

"This is an easy one... Scouts are always taken at their WORD."

 

I take everyone at their word...until they prove themselves to be untrustworthy...

 

...then I never take them at their word again.

[JMHawkins]

The requirement doesn't state demonstrate. It says teach. There are requirements that state demonstrate. This isn't one of them.

 

To me that is getting dangerously close to teaching the boys to be locker-room lawyers, parsing words carefully and looking for every shortcut. Isn't the spirit of a rule more important than the legalistic wrangling over the words used to define it?

 

As far as taking the Scouts word for it, sure you should do that, and there's nothing inconsistent with taking his word and asking him to show you how he did it.

 

SCOUT: I taught my little brother how tie a square knot. Can you sign my book please?

 

SM: That's great! I'll sign it, but first can you show me how you taught him?

 

SCOUT: Don't you believe me?

 

SM: A Scout is Trustworthy, of course I believe you. I'm sure you taught him, and I'm sure you believe you taught him the right way. But I want to make sure you really did get it right - that's my job after all. Sometimes we think we got something right but didn't, and it would be a poor teacher who let his student go on doing something the wrong way without telling him, wouldn't it? Now show me how you taught your brother. If you did it the right way, this is a chance to show off! If you didn't get it quite right, this is a chance to improve your skills and get better. Either way is good, right?