Can a Scout be a Den Chief without SM OK

[captainron14]

This came from a thread where it was discussed the real requirements to be a Den Chief and how that should be communicated.

 

In one of the posts it was mentioned that a Den Leader used their Son as their Den Chief because it was easier for everyone involved.

 

Because it states that the SPL and the SM approve this POR for the Scout, if approval is not given, the DL just "does it", does this count as credit for the POR?

 

Can the SM deny it?

 

Would this be a reason for appeal?

 

It seems there is often a huge learning curve between Cubs and Boy Scouts. Mom and Dad should understand that the days of them signing off everything they feel little Johnny is entitled to is over. He is expected to earn his MBs and rank. Using his SPL, PL, SM, ASM, and of course MB Counselors.

 

[shortridge]

Short answer: No.

 

Long answer: A den chief must be selected by the SPL and SM, as you stated.

 

The citation: A den chief ... "is an older Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer. Selected by the senior patrol leader and Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, or Venturing Advisor at the request of the Cubmaster. Approved by the Cubmaster and pack committee for recommendation to the den leader."

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack/csdcf.aspx

 

No wiggle room there.

[ScoutNut]

The SM and SPL approve the Scout to be a Den Chief. However, they can NOT tell the Pack what den to put that Den Chief in. That decision is completely up to the Pack's CC, CM, and the den leader.

 

If a Boy Scout wants to work with Cub Scouts, but his SPL, and SM, will not approve his being a Den Chief, he can still volunteer his time to help a den, he simply does not get POR credit for it.

 

My question would be, if a Scout is already doing all of that work on his own, and he is in need of a POR, why on earth would you NOT approve him as a Den Chief, and give him POR credit for it?

 

 

 

[UCEagle72]

Heh ... I had the new SM of the Troop that I serve ask me that question (and the related, "what are the requirements") last night.

 

Such serendipity!

[evmori]

If a Boy Scout wants to work with Cub Scouts, but his SPL, and SM, will not approve his being a Den Chief, he can still volunteer his time to help a den, he simply does not get POR credit for it.

 

My question would be, if a Scout is already doing all of that work on his own, and he is in need of a POR, why on earth would you NOT approve him as a Den Chief, and give him POR credit for it?

 

Does he want to work with Cub Scouts or just want to hang out with them? Big difference.

 

 

[Eagle92]

It is vital that the SPL and SM approve teh DC not only for POR credit,but to make sure the DC is a good example of the troop AND can help recruit new Scouts into the troop. Being a good example is very important and and can make or break a troop's recruiting. I've seen it where parents saw a poor DC and didn't take their scouts their. I also saw a case where a great DC was able to recruit 1 scout form the pack he was workign in, despite the 20 minute drive to the meeting.

[Twocubdad]

And adding to ed's comment, likely the biggest problem with den chiefs are those who are DCs strictly for the convenience of their parent, the den leader. I've had boys almost drop Scouting entirely because their parent hauled them to every Cub event. And I've seen boys who were den chiefs of their parent's den sit and do homework or play video games the entire meeting.

 

While Scoutnut is correct that the den assignment is up to the Cub Master, I would certainly hope the Cub Master and Scoutmaster have a working relationship such that they understand the needs of both units and make mutually-beneficial den cheif assignments. It needs to be a two-way street -- make that a three-way street, including the needs/wishes of the den chief. A Cub Master would be a fool to shoe-horn a Den Chief into a den against the advise of the Scoutmaster, regardless of the reasons.

 

I suppose I'm lucky in that the fellow who cordinates the den chief program is the immediate past Cub Master and still has a foot in both programs. He is the one who really makes the den assignments. Absent any other compelling issues, our priority is to assign den chiefs starting with the Webelos II dens and working our way back. Of course we look at the den meeting schedule and make sure the DC and make the meetings.

 

We also consider the DC's age. I wouldn't put a 12-year-old DC in a Webelos II den. There needs to be more age separation between the Cubs and the den chief than that. WebIIs aren't going to give a 12-year-old DC the same automatic respect they would give to a 15- or 16-year-old.

[ScoutNut]

Yes, and I've seen boys who do a GREAT job WORKING with their parent's den.

 

I have also seen boys who don't mind in the least attending, and WORKING at every Cub event.

 

The biggest problem I have seen are boys who are pressured into being a Den Chief when they do not want the position.