Eagle App has some poor wording and grammatical errors

[Thomas54]

 

You as the SM or the Eagle coordinator see several writing errors in a scout's Eagle application. Do you go through and mark it up, adding comments to improve the wording?

 

 

 

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yes it's ironic that I had to edit this for errors.(This message has been edited by Thomas54)

[Scoutfish]

Tough call

 

As an applicant for eagle, he should have taken the time to check for accuracy and spelling. This isn't a camping form.

 

But then again, this isn't school, english 101 or spelling class.

 

You obviously knew what was intended as you were able to correct it...so therefore, the info was there.

 

You gotta decide: Are we gonna act like we are school, or are we gong to be an organazation that is not school?

[SR540Beaver]

Depends on your BOR panels and they are vastly different even within the same council. We are having a rash of boys in our district routinely having to come back a second and third time for nitpicky stuff, so we have folks in our troop reviewing the boys project book before hand to try to get them thru the pitfalls. No, it shouldn't be this way. Yes, it is being addressed. It is an adult training issue.......specifically with one "old school" scouter who takes pride in making EBOR's difficult.

[Nike]

I'd tell him if I saw spelling/grammar mistakes as well as if something wasn't clearly written. Then I'd remind him that he should be putting his best foot forward with the Eagle App and project report. The Scout can decide whether he wants to redo it or send it in as is. But, unless it was absolutely hellacious from a Scout I knew could do so much better, I wouldn't fuss about it. It's "his" project and award.

 

 

[evmori]

I'd tell him what I found & it's up to him to change it. I don't think his application should be turned away because of grammatical and/or spelling errors.

[RANBOW]

The first thing that comes to my mind is. What is he or his wife going to think about such errors when he pulls it out of a file in 20 or more years and they read it over? Will he be as proud to be an eagle with these errors on his original paperwork? Do you think he will wonder why he was allowed through with errors like this? Will his wife still be as impressed with his boyhood accomplishment? These are just a few thoughts. Obviously these are not simple errors or you would not be asking this question.

 

See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

 

[T2Eagle]

Both my wife and I have explained to our kids that neither of us would ever submit any significant professional written piece without having someone else proofread and edit it.

 

When you are looking at your own composition there comes a point where you no longer can spot the errors, you see what you think it says not neccesarily what's there.

 

Give him your suggested edits and let him decide what to do with them.

[shortridge]

Did he specifically ask you for feedback on the writing?

 

If so, I'd circle the problem spots and hand it back to him, not explaining in detail how to change it. Leave that up to the Scout.

 

If not, I'd say "Hey, I noticed a couple of items in there that might be problematic, from a grammar or comprehension standpoint - a few places where it might be difficult for someone not familiar with the project to understand something. You might want to give it another look-see or get another set of eyes on it." Just keep it vague and leave it up to the Scout.

[evmori]

The first thing that comes to my mind is. What is he or his wife going to think about such errors when he pulls it out of a file in 20 or more years and they read it over? Will he be as proud to be an eagle with these errors on his original paperwork? Do you think he will wonder why he was allowed through with errors like this? Will his wife still be as impressed with his boyhood accomplishment? These are just a few thoughts. Obviously these are not simple errors or you would not be asking this question.

 

Seriously?

[Eagle92]

T2E is spot on, sometimes you need someone who is not close to the paper to proof it. I proofed my wife's papers in grad school, and vice versa. OUCH I thought some of my first papers written grad school were bleeding.

 

That said, in ref to the Eagle app, did he ask you to proof? If so then yes help him out by pointing out the errors, but not the correction.

 

If he didn't ask for your opinion on the app, tell him you spotted a few errors and ask that he and someone else proof it.

[Thomas54]

 

 

Thanks,

 

I'll make a few suggestions to the wording and then meet with the scout to discuss.

 

 

[Stosh]

Everyone is different on this process. The troop I used to be with would critique every project application, starting with the SM, then the ASM's and even members of the committee. It would seem that by the time the adults got done with it it was more their application than the boy's.

 

On the other hand, I ask the boy what his project is all about and if it sounds like a good idea, then I merely sign it. I don't read their proposals, I take them verbally from the boy and we talk about his plans. It's the scout's project, it's up to him to do it. When I sign off, I'm signing off on their idea, not their ability to write an application. If it gets kicked back once or twice, then it's their problem, not mine.

 

I did once have a boy's project questioned as to its merit. Members of the EBOR called me and discussed it with me. I felt it had merit and had suggested it to the boy to do. They approved it then and by the time the boy completed it, the project had made the front page of the second section of the state-wide newspaper. I guess it did have merit.

 

To this day I have never read an Eagle application. If a boy asks me to read it for content, spelling, etc. I will direct him to follow his ability to find the best people possible in every aspect of his project, this might mean talking with his English teacher rather than his SM on this issue. True leadership involves finding the best people for the job.

 

Stosh

 

Stosh

 

 

[JerseyScout]

Our local Eagle board is ridiculously and insanely nitpicky. I've seen some absolutely top notch, beautifully written projects that they've shot down for some of the absolute worst reasons. For example, and I am not making this one up - one kid was sent back largely on the basis of not being able to answer satifactorily the question "Who will take care of your project if you end up in an accident and are in the hospital for three months?" Another time a kid was sent back because, again not making this up, he didn't know the lengths of the hammers that he was using (he did know they were carpenters hammers, his dad was a carpenter and was loaning them from work for the project). A third Scout (possibly with the best, most airtight proposal I have ever laid eyes on) was sent back not because he did anything wrong, but because he used a computer drafting program that he had learned in high school to do part of the planning, and the committee refused to believe that a high school kid could use such a program (they are a bit behind the times, lots of kids can use these programs now). Not every project gets sent back for unreasonable reasons (some get sent back for very legitimate reasons), but there is a definate pattern... every kid is sent back the first time.

 

So we came up with a plan. First, the Scout has to find a project, do the legwork, and write it up. Then I ask 1 to 3 Scouts who have already finished their Eagle projects go through the proposal with a fine toothed comb, walking the Scout whose project it is through the problems that they got nailed with. They go home and rewrite it. Finally, I use my magical teacher and Scoutmaster skills to go through it again, picking apart any holes I can find, of which there are usually zero or minimal by the time it gets to me. I don't consider using your experienced peers in Scouts to go through your project and tidy it up, point out flaws, etc to be nannying, using your peers and resources is an important skill in the workforce and in life in general.

 

It hasn't changed our 100% send back rating, but at least now the scout know without a doubt that he put forth his best effort in a solid project proposal, no matter what the board may say. He goes home, measures the hammer, makes up some ridiculous plan for if he is hospitalized for three months, and then it passes.

[Twocubdad]

That's insane.

 

Let me suggest another plan for dealing with these bozos: the appeals process.

 

Sooner or later, when they have enough footprints up and down their backsides of folks going over their heads, maybe they'll get the idea.

[RANBOW]

@ Evmori. --- Yes , Seriously. As I stated. It was the first thing that popped into my mind. An eagle should always be able to take pride in his accomplishment. Today and tomorrow.

 

As an adult if you go back and look over your original paperwork, you will find it to appear written in a childish manner. However, if you look at it as an adult and see that it is written with huge errors and misspellings,. you may wonder how they let you through or even consider if you were pushed through the system. Much like many are pushed through the school systems and finish unable to read very well.

 

Would you want to pull out your original paperwork later in life and then feel like hiding it from everyone else for the rest of your days out of embarrassment? There is a reason why, not every scout becomes an eagle. I asked a leader to proof read my app. almost thirty years ago. It just made common sense. Today I can pull out my original app. and say to myself "this is actually well written for my age at the time".

 

I wasnt trying to tell thomas what to do but, merely stating my thoughts while providing a different view for thought provocation. Should it be brought to the scouts attention? I think so. Even though I didnt say it in such a way in my first post. Should it be nit picked? Probably not but, he should be reminded to continue to put his best foot forward. Thats why we are there for them.

 

Please pardon me for having an opinion and attempting to provide some food for thought. At the same time, let it be known that your sarcastic bon mot was not appreciated. There is already enough of that in these forums. People come here to seek assistance, provide opinions, and share experience. They / we can do without this type of arrogance.

 

----RANBOW----