Another Helicopter Parent Thread

[Buffalo Skipper]

ROTF LOL! Thanks Jet. I needed that today. I have a CH-47 family coming out to the campout to watch their NYLT trained son be acting SPL for the first time at a campout this weekend. No joke, really.

[gcnphkr]

LOL. That is too funny. I'll need to add it.

 

If you went on a campout just to watch your scout be the acting SPL, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

--------------------because I can---------------------

 

If you edited your scout's Eagle Project Workbook, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

If you went to your scout's ordeal, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

If you nominated your scout for the Vigil Honor, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

If the Council Registrar is on speed dial, you might be a helicopter parent. (Okay, that one is just made up).

(This message has been edited by jet526)

[SR540Beaver]

I've got a number of helicopter stories I can relate to you, but I'll only give you this one. Webelos Woods this past spring at the council property close to town. Two scouts came with the troop on Friday night to participate in the event on Saturday. They had to leave Saturday evening for another event. Another scout had to work on Friday and part of Saturday and couldn't come to camp until Saturday evening. He was going to use the tent the other two were moving out of. One of the two who was moving out was a 17 year old Eagle and his buddy was a 16 year old Life scout. The Eagle's mom went into their tent and gathered their gear and loaded it in her car. The scout who was moving into their tent had already dropped his gear in it. She gathered his gear along with the other two boy's gear and drove away with it. Temps were in 40's that night and when the scout went to unroll his bag and get in bed......it wasn't there. That is a helicopter parent at work.

 

OK, a bonus story. Same mom and scout. He went to the 2005 Jambo as a participant and she went on staff. I was ASM of his Jambo troop. Twice, TWICE she came down to the camp site and cleaned his tent for him.

 

Sheesh!

[evry]

can I add some?

 

If you know how many boxes of popcorn your son sold and your son has no clue, you are a helicopter parent.

 

If you carry your son's knife during outings, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

If your son looks at you for approval when deciding whether he is ready for a Scoutmaster conference, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

If you run in the infield of a track next to your son pushing him on while he is running the mile for his Personal Fitness MB, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

If you highlight the "important" sections of a merit badge pamphlet, you might be a helicopter parent.

 

keep them coming!

[Hal_Crawford]

If you take down your son's tent at the end of a campout.

 

If become a MBC and sign off on your son's merit badges when there are lots of other counselors available.

 

If you wrote the proposal for your son's Eagle project.

 

If you hire day laborers to carry out your son's Eagle project.

 

 

[Beavah]

Is scouting intended to sabotage our relationships with our own children?

 

Nah, not at all. It's meant to deepen relationships, which means moving them beyond the comfortable relationship of dependency to the richer relationship of mutual trust.

 

Da helicopter parent is da parent who is stuck in and relies on having that dependency relationship with their son. Who coaches da lad on approaching the SM rather than letting his boy figure it out or fumble through it (never known a SM to bite), perhaps. Or perhaps not. Depends on how guilty you are feeling about it. . Or how much your son really was incapable of doing it on his own, in his own time. Helping a shy new boy approach da SM for the first time might be needed.

 

I love all of jet's and especially SR540's example too.

 

I'll add mothers who tie their son's hiking boots for 'em. No joke, seen it more than once.

 

Yeh also see Little League parents in scouts, too. That's a related phenomenon, where da parent is living through their son's success or failure, and browbeats or manipulates or agitates against coaches or refs or scouters to guarantee rapid and complete "success" for junior.

[Eagle92]

Bac,

 

No disrespect to you, but while you may not be helicoptering your son, you are the scouts/venturers. Things that they should be doing for themselves, or going to the PLs and SPLs for assistance, or crew secretary, president, etc as the case may be, you are doing for them it seems from your post. Scouts should be able to handle their own advancement. The scribe should be able to record advancement, attendance, etc in the Troop Record book the most units use. A scout being nervous or shy about approaching an SMC should have a PL helping him out. Scouts is not suppose to damage your relationship with your son, rather it is suppose to aid you in helping him to become a man.

 

And please do not take this and an attack on LDS units as it is not meant to be. My observation with 2 sets of units, one was top notch, the other had a long way to go, was that adults do more of the youth work than in non-LDS troops. I thing this is because LDS units are divided on age, i.e. 11 yos work with CS, 12-13 work together in a troop, 14+ in a crew. I believe that it takes away from having the patrol method somewhat. And here's why: once you have an experienced youth who is capable of being a leader and passing on his knowledge to his patrol, he moves to the next level. But because that isn't happening, adults are doing more of the older scouts' work.

 

By having the full gamut of 11-17yos all together, the older scouts should be working with the younger ones. the older ones do the teaching, they do the mentoring , they are running the program.

 

 

[IM_Kathy]

first off I'm LOL at all the "if you... then you are a helicopter parent" and sadly have seen some of those along the way.

 

but I understand what you are saying bacchus... I worry about it too. We don't live in the same town as the troop my son is with, and it makes no sense to drive back home, wait 10 mins, and then go back and pick him up... so I have always stayed. I am a MBC and on the troop committee. But as the only in house swimming merit badge councilors and the person that does the swim tests for our canoe trip that happens before summer camp I usually am most active with the new scouts. I do camp a lot as it is something I enjoy, but most of my work on campouts is not working with boys but working with the parents and teaching them how to NOT parent on these trips.

 

I refuse to do any merit badges with my son unless I'm the only councilor we have available. I made him do swimming at camp in the very cold pool (mean mom LOL) after which he had only 1 requirement that he did not pass that I had him do at our next swim tests and witnessed by another adult. there are a couple reasons I don't work with my son on MB - 1) I'm actually harder on him than I probably am on other boys and 2) I don't want others to think my son is skating by with me even though he wouldn't be (it's that perception thing)

 

the most fun I had was the 6 months this winter through summer when my son was SPL... his very first meeting agenda you could see that he came to me and asked how to type one up... at the end of which I said ok, now you know how to do it so you don't need help any more. Well, my son needs to learn how to use spell check... OMG every agenda he emailed out had something spelled wrong... I'm not sure how many mEAting's we had but every time I read it I laughed. By the end of it he had some very well written agendas, but of course he just had to purposely mess the heck out of his last one just because he's a smart alec!

[evmori]

If you know what's in your boys duffel bag for camp and he doesn't, you might be a helicopter parent.

[Stosh]

And what about the parents that do it right?

 

I had an experience where the parent did NOT interfere.

 

I had a situation where the son of a former SM was not doing his job, relying on his father/son relationship to take advantage of the situation. Both boy and former SM were at a meeting and I called the boy on it. He stormed out of the meeting, the dad sat in the back quietly and said nothing. Boy stood out in the parking lot until dad came out and they went home.

 

This happened twice more and the dad reacted the same way each time.

 

To make a long story short, the boy is now one of my best ASM's.

 

I have another parent who has a boy who has learning disabilities. She sits quietly in the back of the meetings and says nothing. The boy struggles over and over again and all she does is smile and waits for him to get done with the meeting. He's the only boy in the troop that has proven himself with a POR and done a good job, but he struggles every foot of the way, but he's come a long way!

 

The boy I held back on his Eagle for six months is my other ASM's son. He never said a word about it to me. The boy is now an active Eagle JASM in the troop.

 

Every time a parent interferes the boy suffers. I have seen the pattern repeat itself over and over again. Most of my parents are johnny-on-the-spot when I need someone to drive or help out, but otherwise they are non-existant when it comes to the boys. The boys of these parents are doing quite well. Some of my other parents are HC parents and those boys are really struggling with the boy-led concept of scouting.

 

Stosh

[Gary_Miller]

Eagle92,"And please do not take this and an attack on LDS units as it is not meant to be."

 

Then why single out a charter organization?

 

Eagle92, "My observation with 2 sets of units, one was top notch, the other had a long way to go, was that adults do more of the youth work than in non-LDS troops."

 

While that maybe your "observation" my experience has been it has nothing to do with the charter organization as it has to do with the adults involved their level of training, their understanding of an advisors responsibility, as well as their trust in the boys.

 

Eagle92, "I thing this is because LDS units are divided on age, i.e. 11 yos work with CS, 12-13 work together in a troop, 14+ in a crew. I believe that it takes away from having the patrol method somewhat."

 

First a correction. 11 yos scouts in LDS chartered units don't work with the CS program. They function as the new scout patrol in the troop. They don't met with the troop but hold their own weekly patrol meeting. The leaders are ASM in the troop an if done properly the troop guide meets with them.

 

While all units are different I have found the division of age groups in different programs work well if the adults in the programs focus on their responsibility to teach the YM to be leaders.

 

Eagle92, "And here's why: once you have an experienced youth who is capable of being a leader and passing on his knowledge to his patrol, he moves to the next level."

 

However, because the boys move by age and not all at one time there is always an experienced YM to pass on his knowledge to his patrol.

 

Eagle92, "But because that isn't happening, adults are doing more of the older scouts' work."

 

I think it has more to do with the adults not doing their job of training the youth in their responsibilities and then expecting them to do it. It goes back to the old saying "Its just easier to do it myself." So some leaders just step in and do it, instead of letting the boys figure it out. LDS units are not the only units with this problem.

 

Eagle92, "By having the full gamut of 11-17yos all together, the older scouts should be working with the younger ones. the older ones do the teaching, they do the mentoring , they are running the program."

 

That same influence and teaching happens when the leaders of the various programs in and LDS units work together and teaches the YM in their duties of helping each other.

[raisinemright]

JBlake,

 

your story reminded me of a similar deal. We were on a personal camping trip with a kid in our troop and his family. He wanted to do the 2nd class water rescue stuff, so we decided to take out the dinghy with a small electric motor and I "accidentally" fell out of the boat.

 

The scout and his dad were in the boat. I forgot to tell the kid how to operate the motor and after he tossed me a life vest, the wind began to push the boat away. His dad just sat there watching as his son fumbled with trying to work the motor. I didn't help by yelling that they rescued people off the Titanic faster. It took a while, but the scout figured it out and "rescued" me.

[Bando]

I always think of the best adult leader parents as the ones for whom I could not figure out which one was their kid if I didn't know them very well. There's a lot of dads who bring their son to the meeting, and you don't see them together until they leave.

[Horizon]

It would be fun to graph the spectrum:

 

On one end, we have the Baby Sitters of America. This is when parents toss their kids out the door of the car, pay no attention to what is going on, and provide zero support to the Troop either. They tend to be the ones always late picking up their kid after a campout or a Troop meeting (forcing me and one other adult to hang out at the church).

 

On the other end, we have the parents engaged in Webelos III and helicoptering. They are well covered in some of the comments in this thread when taken as a whole.

[OldGreyEagle]

raisinemright you are one brave dude, to be in open water about to be rescued by a scout who doesnt know how to operate the motor? even an electric one take more courage than I have