AoL = Automatic rank advancement?

[CalicoPenn]

Sorry Trainerlady, technically Jet is correct.

 

Here is what the application states is required in order to become a Boy Scout:

 

* Meet the age requirements

 

* Complete the application and sign indicating approval (parent).

 

* Give the completed application and fees to the Scoutmaster

 

* Secure a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook and complete the joining requirements as listed (and those requirements are listed as requirements for "earning" the Scout Badge).

 

* Fill out the personal health history class 1 form and give it to the unit leader.

 

Filling out and turning in the application does not automatically make one a Boy Scout. Only after all the requirements are met, including "earning" the Scout Badge, which indicates that the joining requirements are met, is one a Boy Scout. Until then, you have simply applied to be a Boy Scout. In order to be registered as a Boy Scout, a lad has to complete the joining requirements. That means that technically, a lad can't attend camp as a Boy Scout, or work on any ranks or merit badges, until he has his Scout badge (but he can still attend camp, and be covered under the BSA insurance, as a guest of the Troop).

 

When a Webelos transfers to a Troop, he has to have a filled out application as well - and go through the same hoops. He may have paid his $1 transfer fee to the Scoutmaster, but he isn't a Boy Scout until the unit leader signs the application and turns it in to Council, which should be done after the joining requirements are met.

 

Now is this what happens at the unit level? Not always (and quite possibly not often). As I said, it's doubtful anyone would make a fuss - but technically, a lad isn't a Boy Scout, not even a transfer from Cub Pack, until the requirements for joining are met.

 

For Cub Scouts, things are different - one does not need to earn Bobcat before one becomes a Cub Scout. The requirements to become a Cub Scout are different:

 

* Complete the information on the application and sign to signify your approval (parent)

 

* Give the completed application and fees to the Cubmaster.

 

* Meet the age requirements for the appropriate level

 

* Fill in and turn in a health history Class 1 form.

 

That's it - no mention of completing joining requirements, or completing Bobcat as a joining requirement. The application is filled out and signed, the fees are paid, the health history form is turned in and the Boy is considered a Cub Scout.

[JMBadger]

It appears that this thread has gone downhill. All I wanted was clarification as to whether earning the Arrow of Light entitled the boy to start as a Tenderfoot. The general consensus seems to be NO. Or at least nobody is telling me that "in the manual on page ### it says you can." My question then has been answered.

 

Perhaps we should spin further discussion about "when exactly does a boy become a scout" off to another thread.

[John-in-KC]

Good Morning, JMBadger:

 

Here is a link to the requirements for the Arrow of Light. While the link is not to scouting.org, usscouts.org is a place I trust:

http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/arrowoflight.asp

 

Here is a link to the BSA website, with the requirements for Scout:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/joining.aspx

 

As you compare, notice the Scout must agree to understand and live by the Outdoor Code. That is a difference between AOL and Scout

Notice the AOL requires knowledge of the First Class Badge, "The Badge of Better Boyhood" The Scout must describe the Scout badge. That is a second difference

 

Finally, the new Scout must do the pamphlet (YP) exercises with his parent. That's not required for AOL.

 

So ... AOL does not even give automatic Scout status.

 

Also from the BSA website, here are the requirements for Tenderfoot:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/tenderfoot.aspx

 

Simply put, there are more skills for the Tenderfoot than there are for the AOL.

 

No, Sir, AOL does not equal automatic Tenderfoot. It did not in 1967-68, when I moved up to Boy Scouting, and it does not today.

 

I hope this explanation gives you the answers you need.

[JMBadger]

J in KC:

 

"As you compare, notice the Scout must agree to understand and live by the Outdoor Code."

The Webelos Badge, required for AoL, does require this, therefore it is required for AoL.

 

"Notice the AOL requires knowledge of the First Class Badge...the Scout must describe the Scout badge."

In describing the parts of the First Class badge you describe the trefoil (which is the Scout Badge), so this requirement is also fulfilled.

 

The YP pamphlet, yeah, I guess whatever the kid did for his Bobcat doesn't really count.

 

[evmori]

Here's the key to this. To earns anything as a Boy Scout, a boy must be registered as a Boy Scout and a boy can't be registered as a Boy Scout and Cub Scout at the same time.

[jhankins]

Color me what you like, but my son went to his future scoutmaster and made his case for allowing an AoL boy to earn his Tenderfoot badge when crossing over. The Scoutmaster and committee both agreed that if the boy could stand up to a SM Conference and a board of review *and* exhibit all the skills necessary from the AoL to Boy Scouts, they'd give him the badge.

 

 

[evmori]

Then they are skirting the system and awarding your son a badge there is no way he could have earned. Here are the Tenderfoot requirements

 

1. Present yourself to your leader, properly dressed, before going on an overnight camping trip. Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it.

2. Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

3. On the campout, assist in preparing and cooking one of your patrol's meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup, and explain the importance of eating together.

4. a. Demonstrate how to whip and fuse the ends of a rope.

 

b. Demonstrate you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch.

c. Using the EDGE method, teach another person how to tie the square knot.

 

5. Explain the rules of safe hiking, both on the highway and cross-country, during the day and at night. Explain what to do if you are lost.

6. Demonstrate how to display, raise, lower, and fold the American flag.

7. Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath, Law, motto, and slogan.

8. Know your patrol name, give the patrol yell, and describe your patrol flag.

9. Explain the importance of the buddy system as it relates to your personal safety on outings and in your neighborhood. Describe what a bully is and how you should respond to one.

10. a. Record your best in the following tests:

 

* Push-ups

* Pull-ups

* Sit-ups

* Standing long jump

* 1/4 mile walk/run

b. Show improvement in the activities listed in requirement 10a after practicing for 30 days.

 

11. Identify local poisonous plants; tell how to treat for exposure to them.

12. a. Demonstrate how to care for someone who is choking.

 

b. Show first aid for the following:

 

* Simple cuts and scrapes

* Blisters on the hand and foot

* Minor (thermal/heat) burns or scalds (superficial, or first degree)

* Bites and stings of insects and ticks

* Venomous snakebite

* Nosebleed

* Frostbite and sunburn

 

13. Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Discuss four specific examples of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life.

14. Participate in a Scoutmaster conference.

15. Complete your board of review.

 

There is no way he could have completed #'s 1, 2, 3, 8 or 10 since he became a Boy Scout!

 

Doing things like this set a dangerous precedent for future advancement for all boys in the Troop.

[Scoutfish]

I'll star with my usual disclaimer: I am not a Boy Scout, my son is not a Boy Scouts, not have I ever been a Boy Scout.

 

I am also not a meteorologist, but I know when it's raining, snowing or the wind is blowing though....

 

 

Okay, Evmori pretty much just laid down the law there. There is a set way to become Tenderfoot. No if's , and's or But's about it.

 

But I am going to venture a guess as to why they did do that: Was your son part of only one or two new boys to jion this troop? Maybe they wanted to bring up in rank to be on an even keel? Maybe they did not have enough newer boys and didn't want him to feel like the oddball?

 

Not sure what the reason was, but in the long run, It only takes away from your son. Not that he might ever know, but it does.

 

Anyways, the troop may not have had any malicious reasons behind skipping requirements, but it still is a bad idea!

[allenj]

According to the LION/WEBELOS handbook Copyright 1954, the Webelos badge was the Arrow of Light. The term AOL came later and the Webelos badge wasn't instituted until the Webelos became a year long program.

Originally Web.program started when a boy earned his Lion rank and reached 10 1/2 years old. Requirement #3, P.146. Stated that "Show that you are prepared in the Tenderfoot Scout requirements as given in the HANDBOOK fOR BOYS. You will actually pass these requirements to your Scoutmaster when you join a Troop".So when a boy earned his Webelos badge he was quizzed by his new Scoutmaster who approved his Tenderfoot rank immedeatly upon joining the Troop. This is how I earned my Tenderfoot in 1955. ( Yah I'm Old)

Another interesting item is that we all accept that WEBELOS means We'll Be Loyal Scouts. But it also meant Wolf, Bear, Lion, Scout.

[allenj]

Also;

HANDBOOK FOR BOYS, Copyright 1948,Fifth Edition, Page x TENDERFOOT Requirents states "When you have met the Tenderfoot requirements before your Scoutmaster (or have been reviewed in the Cub Scout Webelos requirements by your Scoutmaster), and have proved to him that you thourghly understand the Scout Oath or Promase and Law, he registers you as a Boy cout. You take the Scout Oath or Promase at a ceramony in front of your Patrol and Troop, and are entitled to wear the Tenderfoot badge and Official Uniform of the Boy Scouts of America".

[BrentAllen]

jhankins,

There is one part of your last post that is absolutely true - the Troop did "give" your son Tenderfoot, because there is no way he earned it.

 

Boys know when they are given something, and when they have earned it. Troops giving away ranks only hurts them in the long run - the boys lose respect for the program, and think it is all just a joke.

[John-in-KC]

JMBadger ...

 

To me, that's parsing.

 

The standard is also different: At all levels of Cub Scouting, the rank advancement standard is "Do Your Best." In Boy Scouts, it's "Meet the Requirement."

 

No. AOL and Tenderfoot are not synonymous. AOL and Scout are not synonymous.

[jhankins]

Thanks for the page quotes, allenj. That's basically what the scoutmaster and committee are doing. The scoutmaster has signed off all the requirements himself and isn't being "given" the badge as BrentAllen eludes to. He's earned it under the guidance of the troop during outings and participation directly with the leader of the troop.

[ADCinNC]

Hi All,

 

I found this info listed here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Parents/Awards/advancement.aspx

 

"The highest rank in Cub Scouting is the Arrow of Light Award. Earning this rank prepares a Webelos Scout to become a Boy Scout. Webelos Scouts who have earned the Arrow of Light Award have also completed all requirements for the Boy Scout badge."

 

I can totally see how someone can be confused about it covering the Scout Badge, but in no way does it suggest they receive Tenderfoot.

 

Thomas

[BrentAllen]

jhankins,

I hope you do realize that the pages quoted by allenj are from 1948 and 1954 Handbooks, and are no longer valid. Also, back then Scouts didn't receive a Scout badge for joining - the first badge they received was their Tenderfoot, after earning it.

 

I'm curious how your son passed requirement 10 for Tenderfoot, which requires an intial test, practice for 30 days, and showing improvement after 30 days.