AoL = Automatic rank advancement?

[gcnphkr]

"The Scout Badge requirements are to be done as a Boy Scout, not a Cub Scout."

 

They are JOINING requirements that are done BEFORE he becomes a Boy Scout. The Scout Badge shows that he is a Boy Scout and he is not a Boy Scout until they are complete. The boy will be a Webelos until they are compete or his registration expires. While the AOL does not meet all the joining requirements, the remaining ones are trivial.

 

If I could get the parents to all read the pamphet with their boy and turn in the application before crossover I would be happy to give them their Scout Badge at crossover. Unfortunately this generally takes a few weeks.

 

 

[shortridge]

What two-months-as-a-Scout requirement for Tenderfoot? That must have been dropped by the '90s ...

[gcnphkr]

"Once upon a time, if memory serves, a CS who received AOL automatically got Scout AND had the 2 months as a scout requirement waived for Tenderfoot."

 

My Webelos Award card (Which was what the AOL was called back then) is dated the day before the date on my Tenderfoot card.

[Eagle92]

Short,

The time requirements for T-2-1 were dropped in 1989 when they revised the BSHB and revised advancment. BSA did away with Skill Awards (which I lament), time requirements for T-2-1, and did away with First Aid MB being required for First Class, my biggest lament.

[evmori]

They are JOINING requirements that are done BEFORE he becomes a Boy Scout. The Scout Badge shows that he is a Boy Scout and he is not a Boy Scout until they are complete. The boy will be a Webelos until they are compete or his registration expires. While the AOL does not meet all the joining requirements, the remaining ones are trivial.

 

Yes they are joining requirements. As soon as the registration form is turned in, the boy is no longer a WEBELOS, he is a Boy Scout.

[JMBadger]

Didn't mean to cause such a commotion with my question, but a few more details:

 

Our AoL ceremony includes having the boys recite all the Boy Scout stuff, demonstrating the sign, salute, etc. The two ceremonies I have been part of had all the boys also crossing over at the same time into the troop where they had their Scout Master interview. The parents had already submitted the application to the Scout Master and signed off on the Child Protection pamphlet, so the paperwork was already done.

 

The fact of the boys' qualifying for the Scout Badge was never in question, only whether they were considered also qualified for Tenderfoot. I believed the answer to that is 'no' and that is still my opinion.

 

I was surprised to discover the absence of a time requirement (3 months from Scout to Tenderfoot back in '78, if I remember correctly, and another 3 to get 2nd Class)but then a lot of stuff has changed.

[sherminator505]

"Once upon a time, if memory serves, a CS who received AOL automatically got Scout AND had the 2 months as a scout requirement waived for Tenderfoot."

 

I remember this. It was back when I was a Scout (OGE calls this the dark time). I remember that this disappeared in the '80's and AFAIK it hasn't returned.

[gcnphkr]

"As soon as the registration form is turned in, the boy is no longer a WEBELOS, he is a Boy Scout."

 

If you mean "As soon as the registration form is turned into council" then you would be correct. The unit leader should not sign or submit the application until all the requirements have been competed. Making an exception of completing the pamphlet or agreeing to live by the Scout Oath and Law is no different then making an exception for a 9 year old. Knowingly or not, the unit leader is saying that the scout has met all the joining requirements.

[shortridge]

Eagle92,

 

Thanks! That explains it ... just before my time.

 

I remember the older Scouts grumbling about the lack of skill awards, but had not heard anything about the time element.

[evmori]

If you mean "As soon as the registration form is turned into council" then you would be correct. The unit leader should not sign or submit the application until all the requirements have been competed.

 

Yes I meant into council and the form should be turned in ASAP regardless if the requirement for the Boy Scout badge are complete.

 

3. Complete a Boy Scout application and health history signed by your parent or guardian.

 

No where is it stated the completed form is to be held until all the other requirements are met.

[CalicoPenn]

There are units that will give the Scout Badge automatically to any Webelos that has earned the Arrow of Light. Considering that a Webelos who has earned the Arrow of Light has completed nearly all of the requirements for the Scout Badge, it's understandable, and I doubt anyone will complain to loudly.

 

Is it proper? Not really - a lad who has earned the Arrow of Light has completed NEARLY all of the requirements - he hasn't completed them all. There is a requirement for receiving the Scout Badge of completing some pamphlet exercises that aren't requried for the Scout Badge. Now its possible that the Scoutmaster and Troop could work to have these requirements met before the crossover - provided that the age requirements are met - remember, in Scouting, we earn the badge when the badge is signed off on, not when it is presented - so it's conceivable that the Webelos could have earned their AOL in January, done the Scout requirements before a February crossover ceremony (he's eligible to become a Scout as soon as the AOL is earned), then at the Blue and Gold, be presented with the AOL badge, then do a crossover ceremony, and receive the Scout Badge upon crossing over - nothing would prevent this.

 

(And the SM did not make a mistake - giving the Tenderfoot Rank badge at a crossover would be a mistake - a Webelos can't complete the requirements to be a Tenderfoot - he needs to be in a troop for at least 30 days).

 

Jet is correct - a boy isn't a Boy Scout until he gets his Scout Badge. Turning in the applicaton doesn't make one a Boy Scout. The application has to be signed by the troop leader before a boy is considered a Boy Scout, and the troop leader is to sign the application when the boy has completed the Scout Badge requirements. Ed is also correct - even though a Webelos may have crossed over, until his registration with the Pack has expired, or until he has officially become a member of a Boy Scout troop, he remains a Webelos.

 

There is one thing that irks me a little - too many Troops "retest" AOL recipients on the Scout Oath and Law by making them repeat them from memory - and that's not required for the Scout Badge (although it is required for Arrow of Light and Tenderfoot). The only requirement for the Scout Badge is to understand and agree to live by the Scout Oath, Law, motto, slogan and the Outdoor Code.

[Eagle92]

Short,

Didn't realize you're a youngin yep there were time requirements between the ranks at the T-2-1 level, and if memory serves it took a minimum of 22 months to get Eagle IF you received the AOL and had your time waived for T, and you hit the BORs exactly at each mark. They dropped the time requirements to push the 'First Class First Year" program b/c it was difficult to get it in a year. I got mine in 13 months, and I was a "go getter" in my troop.

 

FORGOT TO ADD: I still hear grumbling about the lack of time requirements at the T-2-1 level.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[gcnphkr]

"No where is it stated the completed form is to be held until all the other requirements are met"

 

It is not stated that it should be turned in ASAP regardless of the boy's eligability. If the boy was not yet 10 years old would you still turn in the application? What if they were not willing to live by the Oath and Law? Which of these requirements are optional? They are joining REQUIREMENTS, not "things it would be nice for you to do after you join, when you get around to it". Just because troops treat it that way doesn't make it right.

 

Of the one difficult requirement the pamphlet states: "Youth Protection Joining Requirement: For your son to join a Boy Scout troop, he must complete the exercises included in Section II of this pamphlet."

[evmori]

It is not stated that it should be turned in ASAP regardless of the boy's eligability. If the boy was not yet 10 years old would you still turn in the application? What if they were not willing to live by the Oath and Law? Which of these requirements are optional? They are joining REQUIREMENTS, not "things it would be nice for you to do after you join, when you get around to it". Just because troops treat it that way doesn't make it right.

 

Of the one difficult requirement the pamphlet states: "Youth Protection Joining Requirement: For your son to join a Boy Scout troop, he must complete the exercises included in Section II of this pamphlet."

 

If the boy isn't 10 years old, no I would not turn in the application since he isn't eligible to join Boy Scouts at that age. None of the requirements you listed are optional. I never said they were.

[trainerlady]

Jet - IMHO you have joining and registering confused. An application is for registration with the BSA it truly has nothing to do with joining a troop or becoming a scout. It is a tracking and financial document. Once a AoL recipient (or any 11+ year old boy joining) pays his $1 transfer/intial fee to the BSA with the accompanying form he is a Boy Scout in the eyes of the BSA. He hasn't completed his joining (basically initiation) requirements, but he is considerd a Boy Scout for intents and purposes.

 

 

He may never earn the level of Scout but he can still attend camps and events as a Boy Scout. All that truly counts is that he is registered and covered under the BSA insurance and safety policies. Not turning in a Scout's application until he has completed the Scout level is a great disservice to the Scout and his family. God forbid an accident happens during a troop game and he not registered because he hasn't finished his Scout badge yet. Is your troop going to shell out for the medical or dental bills incurred from the unfortunate accident?

 

If your thinking is correct then no Cub Scout can be a Cub Scout until he finishes his Bobcat Badge. It is to Cubs what the Scout Badge is to Boy Scouts. Having done several boy talks in both the spring and fall I have registered several kids that come for 1-2 meetings and quit/never return. Heck we routinely get 1-2 every spring that register and never ever come to a meeting in the fall. But they are still Cubs or BS until re-charter time. We'd never dream of holding those applications and money for months until the kids came to meeting. The money and forms are turned in immediately to the Council and these kids are now Scouts aka members of the BSA.

 

Becoming a member of the BSA and completing the intitation requirements for any level are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. It is imparative that the applications and the fees be turned in ASAP. The rest of the requirements can wait.