Scoutmaster options - Improperly accomplished merit badges

[Eagle92]

Base,

For whatever reason, kids wants advancement, parents pushing kids, camps knowing that in order to compete for campers that have to offer lots of MBs, etc, it seems as if the days of scouts having fun and doing their own thing while working on MBs is starting to come to an end. I know that when I worked supply and was part of a summer camp pilot, my boss could not understand why we had to keep the store open while "all the scouts are in classes." I had to tell her constantly for 2 years that yes classes did go on during the day, Scouts didn't have to take a class every session. I won that argument, although frustrating to repeat myself almost every week for two summers. She couldn't understand why scouts would have free time.

[Jeffrey H]

The summer camp we attended really fouled up the attendance records and completion records on the merit badges and TFC class. They showed "partials" and "absences" for some of our most dedicated Scouts. We knew something was wrong. Upon interviewing the Scouts after we got back home, it was obvious that they completed and their requirements.

 

We enjoyed the camp overall and the overall program they offered, but the level of incompetence or indifference among the camp staff in regards to recordkeeping was very disappointing. We've attended camps inside and outside the our council with similar issues, but this camp was the worst I've seen.

 

 

 

 

[Roadkill Patrol]

When one of our scouts took Photography at camp, the requirement the first day was to turn in the blue card. The counselor added his name to the roster and said that was all for today!?!

[CalicoPenn]

Back to the options:

 

1) Follow policy, which states that once a Merit Badge Counselor has signed off on the merit badge, the badge is earned, and present the lads with the merit badge, while loudly telling everyone in earshot, including the Scouts and their parents, that they didn't really earn the merit badge despite what the MBC said, and that you're just giving the badge out because policy says you have to give it out. (Not recommended)

 

2) Don't give the badges out because you have decided that you know more than the BSA and their policies obviously don't apply to someone smarter than the BSA is and make the Scouts re-do the badge with a new MBC (not recommended - and rather arrogant).

 

3) Don't give the badges out because you have decided to contravene policy and make them do a retest of everything in your presence until they get it right to your satisfaction (not recommended - and if you have time to do that, how could you possibly have time to do the job of Scoutmaster?).

 

4) Quit - now - so that you don't have to wrestle with your conscience on following clear policy and doing what you think is right. (not recommended - and a cop-out - life sometimes requires us to hold our nose and do something we think we shouldn't have to do - it's what we do to follow-up that points to our true character)

 

5) Follow policy and give the merit badges to the Scouts, as earned per policy, then quietly have a discussion with the executive in charge of the summer camp program, and/or the volunteer in charge of the camping committee to express your displeasure at their failure to provide a proper program. Explain that you were following the Scout Law and assumed they were trustworthy enough to provide proper instruction by their summer camp counselors and that you are taking this as a learning experience for yourself and that you will be far more rigourous in determing whether their summer camp merit badge counselors next year have the right stuff - and that they need to re-earn your trust. Then suggest that your PLC schedule a few more aquatics type outings (even swim nights at a local pool) where the Scouts can all practice their skills. (RECOMMENDED).

 

 

[Beavah]

6) Follow the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America which state that Boy Scout Advancement is earned for proficiency in outdoor skills, and the core policy of Boy Scout Advancement that badges are earned only for what a scout is able to do, not what a scout has done (or has signed). Be honest with the boy and with your signature on the advancement report form, and help him see that he has not yet earned the badge. Go home and find him a counselor who will provide him a better experience. Give appropriate feedback to da Camp Director. Look for better camps, or plan to exercise greater control of your camp MB experience next year. (RECOMMENDED)

 

7) Give the lad the badge because paperwork is more important than character, even if da paperwork is clearly in error. Claim that you are following the policy of the Boy Scouts even when you're not. It's important to have a bureaucratic excuse for doing something that any kid realizes is just dumb.

 

 

B

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[John-in-KC]

8) Do not allow a youth member to receive unsatisfactory instruction. Get the adults who went to Scout Camp with you out looking at the program. Compare what is being taught against the current MB requirements. Work with the Lodge Director and the Program Director before the situation becomes the fork in the road Beavah and Calico Penn describe!

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

8) Don't give the Scout the merit badge because in your opinion, the paperwork is in error, because in your opinion you know more than the Merit Badge Counselor who is actually charged by the BSA as the person who decides if a Scout has earned a merit badge because someone who has confused advancement (which is about ranks) with earning merit badges (which is not advancement, though can be part of advancement) told you that just because the application is signed by the Merit Badge Counselor doesn't neccessarily mean that the Merit Badge has been earned which is actually contrary to policy of the BSA. (not recommended).

 

Look - the bottom line is the Merit Badge Counselor signed the application - that means, per policy, that the Merit Badge has been earned. We don't get to pick and choose which Merit Badge Counselors we're going to believe after the fact. If the MBC did a poor job, in your opinion, take it to the district or to council - and just never use that counselor again, but don't take it out on the lads. Whether you agree or not, the person who gets to make the determination, by policy, has said that the merit badge has been earned. Follow the program - don't make up your own rules. Or just go ahead and be loosey goosey about it - just be upfront with the Scouts and their parents that merit badges won't count if you decide after they're completed that they don't count - and hope that your parents know nothing about Scouts and Scouting.

 

And don't rely on the following as an out as has been suggested:

 

"I certify that the the following record of advancement is correct and that it meets the standards and requirements of the Boy Scouts of America"

 

This sentence means just what it says, that your record of advancement meets the standards and requirements. It does not mean that all the advancements on the record meet the standards and requirements - it means that the record itself is correct. Your signature verifies that you have followed the instructions on the report and have filled the report out correctly (or if using a computer generated alternate, that it meets the same standard as the report). It means that the the memberships of the Scouts listed haven't expired. It means that the names are listed alphabetically, with one award per person on a line. It means that you've listed all of one Scout's advancement consecutively (that if a Scout has earned Tenderfoot and Second Class at the same time that it's listed Tenderfoot and Second Class, not Second Class and Tenderfoot). It means that the Scouts listed are male, and not over 18. The only possible hitch, as has been pointed out, is if the MBC isn't registered and an adult over 18 - but check with your Council - they may very well accept summer camp MBC's under 18 - though in general, most summer camps have the head of the department, who is usually over 18 (like the waterfront director) sign the card, though assistants may initial completed requirements. Don't belive this statement means anything more than a statement saying that you followed instructions and filled out the form correctly - because that's all it does.

 

[Scoutfish]

Going bacjk to my original post.... I said that we tend to be more critical of our own than others. This can be good, but sometimes, it can be bad.

 

My wife can spend an hour in front of the mirror fixing her hair and makeup before an evening out.

 

I look at her and think: " WOW! She is soooo freeaking hot!"

 

She looks in the mirror and thinks: "WHat a trainwreck!"

 

Matter of opinion.

 

Likewise, we are harsher on our own kids than other kids.

Thing is, we may not realize it.

 

What you saw as "struggling and barely finishing" may have only been the normal "slower and lest efficient" stride after going at it for a bit.

 

ALSO... I said put them in the water as often as you can. DO NOT just accept the MB as a end all to swimming.

 

Keeping those boys in the water will only do one thing: Make them stronger, more efficient and better swimmers.

 

Just because a counciler doesn't do something to your percieved "okay" doesn't mean it's not okay.

 

Taking away or voiding a badge is the quickest way to ruin it for a kid who may just say : "Screw this scouting stuff! I worked my butt off for nothing!"

 

Again,you may be completely right...but still - don't ruin it for the scout!

 

 

[Stosh]

So what about the situation where on the Blue Cards the unit leader must sign off before the boy starts the merit badge. Our council has done away with the Blue Cards and the other day when I suggested the boys look into the 4 heritage MB's that will be around only for this year, they announced they had already done two of them...... So much for following policy....

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

There is a PDF of a blue card available in the interweb wild. PM Me off list with real contact data and I will email it to you. Just because Council will not free issue them does not mean you cannot use MB apps.

[Beavah]

Don't belive this statement means anything more than a statement saying that you followed instructions and filled out the form correctly

 

LOL-ROTF. Yah, that's da funniest thing I've read in a long time. It's so hard in text to tell, but I assume Calico wasn't typing with a straight face.

 

I don't believe the Boy Scouts of America has "standards and requirements" published for form-filling, eh? And I reckon a properly filled out form is self-evident without a certification that yeh think yeh filled it out properly. And there's no expectation for alphabetic order either.

 

The real bottom line is that yeh have to decide what's best for the boy, not what's best for da paperwork. Is it really a case like what Scoutfish describes, where a lad struggled and worked hard through the whole week and da MBC signed as a generous "barely passed" in acknowledgment of the lad's effort? In that case, by all means, award the badge and keep him swimming.

 

Is it really a case that the boys got shortchanged in instruction, that the badge was pencil whipped or just plain issued in error because da counselors' aides didn't keep accurate records? Then by all means, talk with the boys and explain that you'll find 'em a better counselor back home so that they can really earn the badge, or go make a fuss with da Camp Director to make the staff re-do it if you're more of KC's mind.

 

It ain't about "policy", it's about kids and character. But if yeh have to make it about policy or da books because yeh like being an amateur werewolf attorney, make it about da core statements of da program -

 

Self confidence is developed by measuring up to a challenge or standard. Peer confidence develops when the same measuring system is used for everyone - when all must meet the same challenge to receive equal recognition. Confidence in leaders comes when there is consistency and fairness in measuring - when leaders use a single standard of fairness. No council, district, unit, or individual [MBC included] has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement. A Boy Scout badge recognizes what a young man is able to do; it is not a reward for what he has done

 

The lads all know if da requirements were skirted, if one group got to do the swimming-in-clothes drill in shallow water while others followed da real, unsubtracted requirement of doing it in deep water. Supporting such a cheat because of paperwork signatures undermines their confidence in themselves, their confidence in their peers with da badge, and their confidence in you as a leader. It also weakens da BSA advancement program for everyone.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[CalicoPenn]

Words and sentence structure means things.

 

"I certify that the the following record of advancement is correct and that it meets the standards and requirements of the Boy Scouts of America"

 

Read the above carefully - the word "it" refers to a specific thing - the record of advancement. When you sign, you are certifying that "it" (the record of advancement) meets the standards and requirements. You aren't certifying anything else. If you were certifying that the advancements and badges listed in the record of advancement meets the standards and requirements, you would be signing a statement saying that you are certifying that the advancements and badges listed in the record meet the standards and requirements.

 

"I don't believe the Boy Scouts of America has "standards and requirements" published for form-filling, eh? And I reckon a properly filled out form is self-evident without a certification that yeh think yeh filled it out properly. And there's no expectation for alphabetic order either"

 

And yet if you look at the Boy Scouts record of advancement, it has standards and requirements for filling out the form.

 

If you go here you can read the form (and the standards and requirements for filling out the form published on the form, as well as the certification statement)itself:

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34403.pdf

 

The published standards and requirements for filling out the form are as follows (Form 34403B - 2003 version):

 

1. Advancement procedures:

Packs. After Den Advancement Reports, No 33847, are received from den leaders, this form is completed for the entire pack.

Troops/Teams. All Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts ready for advancement must appear personally before a board of review composed of at least three members. An advancement report must be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.

Crews/Ships. Venturers/Sea Scouts should give their advancement applications to their Advisor or Skipper who, in turn, takes them to the crew/ship committee for approval, then prepares,

signs, and forwards this advancement report to the council service center.

2. Only MEMBERS with unexpired membership certificates can be credited with advancement. Awards are not available to members of units whose charters have expired.

3. Fill in name and only one advancement award or merit badge on each line, but list all of one members advancement consecutively.

4. Please attach applications for the Eagle Scout Award and the Venturing Gold, Silver, and Quartermaster awards to this report.

5. The pack, troop, team, or crew advancement committee member should interview youth members who are not advancing. List these individuals names on bottom of form.

6. No Boy Scout advancement may be earned by female Venturers or by a Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or male Venturer who has reached the age of 18.

7. Venturers may earn Venturing advancement through age 20.

8. Each merit badge counselor must be registered as a merit badge counselor with the BSA.

 

I know it's hard to believe that the Boy Scouts of America has published standards and requirements for filling our forms, yet I've presented the evidence. As Chico Marx said "Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes"

 

Calico

 

And for those wondering about the alphabetic listing, in for 34403B (2000) version (still available on the intertubes as a word document that can be filled out on computer) the instructions read as follows (Note line #3):

 

1. Advancement procedures. See status bar on screen & press F1 for help with each blank. See Advancement Procedures and Policies 33088E for more information.

Packs. After Den Advancement Reports, No. 33847, are received from den leaders, this form is completed for the entire pack.

Troops/Teams. All Scouts ready for advancement must appear personally before a board of review composed of at three to six members not related to any Scout being reviewed and not unit or assistant unit leaders. An advancement report must be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman.

Crews/Ships. Ventures/Sea Scouts should give their advancement applications to their Advisor or Skipper who, in turn, takes them to the post committee for approval, then prepares, signs, and forwards this advancement report to the council service center. Ventures may earn Venture advancement through their 20th year.

2. Only MEMBERS with unexpired membership certificates can be credited with advancement. Awards are not available to members of units whose charters have expired.

3. List names alphabetically with only one advancement award or merit badge on each line. List all of one Scouts advancement consecutively.

4. List the name of a Scout appearing before an Eagle Board alone on one Advancement Report and attach the signed Eagle Application to this report.

5. The pack, troop, or team advancement committee should interview boys who are not advancing. List these boys names on bottom of form.

6. No Boy Scout advancement may be earned by female Ventures or by a Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or male Ventures who have reached the age of 18.

7. Badges of rank, merit badges, and Eagle Palms are restricted items. These items may not be sold or distributed unless the Advancement Report #34403A has been properly filled out and submitted to the local council office. To do otherwise will jeopardize individual youth members record of achievement. #33088E p. 34

 

 

I only wish I could have been facetious about the whole alphabetical thing.

 

CP

[Beavah]

Yah, whatever. Suffice to say, yeh don't read a legal document that way and instructions for a form arent da same thing as "standards and requirements." Love to see yeh try da argument on your tax return (" I thought you meant that the form was true and correct, not that the content of da form was true and correct!).

 

It's still funny, though . Especially trying' to argue around "no subtracting from da requirements". I can only imagine what you'd say if da MBC, as counselor of record, violated the same rule and added to the requirements.

 

Let me ask a different question. If you're still a unit scouter, have you ever asked your kids? Pull your SPL aside and let him know that none of the boys in Swimming MB had met the requirements as stated or as everyone else in da troop had had to do, but da MBC had botched things and filled out the forms.

 

What would the kids say, absent a 10 minute lecture on parsed phrases and policy blather? What would they say is fair and right for their game?

 

I've yet to meet a leadership scout who wouldn't reflect da view of the BSA in the stuff I quoted above. To give him da badge isn't right because it's not fair to the boy, it's not fair to other scouts, and it's not good for da program. It shows a character weakness in da adults and undermines our trust, because it means that some boys who are "favorites" (or good at finding weak links) can manipulate signoffs for less than da requirements. A scout badge should mean something.

 

Go ahead. Ask da kids. I bet yeh find that da BSA is right.

 

I know that almost every EBOR I've ever done, when asked about their least meaningful badge, the boys report on some badge from summer camp that was really "worthless" because the counselor had cheated on da requirements.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Beavah]

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