Eagle Scout referneces

[moosetracker]

As stated some Boards just refuse to be "re-trained".. They consider themselves right, and the recommendation to change is just another example of BSA getting soft on it's basic principles and allowing anyone who shows up and has a heart beat to pass. We were in such a troop, as our first troop, and they constantly failed scouts, one scout they failed 3 times going for the same rank, before he got it on the 4th time. When we left the troop, it took us serious retraining of our beliefs, to see that the re-testing style was not the right way.

 

Still the scout who totally froze because he over trained, never was in this troop, he was in a troop who conducted thier boards correctly. Most troops Do not have a member of the troop on the District Board, Ours did. Yet, somewhere he decided to prepare for the District Eagle board as a grueling test. In this case the dry run help more then just settle nerves.. Most times, it just helps to relax the scout from worrying.

 

Before the EBOR the scout must meet with the district to have their project approved. Our troop REQUIRES the scout to do a dry run of that which involves the whole committee. That one can be brutal as the whole committee will pick it apart for saftey issues, cost analysis, a realistic view on the time, and people to make the project happen. A good narrative and visuals in presenting the project clearly. If the scout gets through the committee with this the presentation to the District board is a breeze.

 

The practice run of the EBOR is only with one or two people, and is just offered to the scout, it is his decision if he wants to do it or not. Compared to the other dry run, this is to relax the scout. Those who are nervous usually appreciate the opportunity and utilize it. Others do not.

 

Does our EBOR fail someone for freezing, NO.. but normally as stated it is a better board if they don't due to the sudden loss of confidence the scout takes after this happens. As stated "Reverent" usually is the only one the scout could trip up and fail on.

 

Even with this issue the board is not being black & white. They went to his religious reference for some clarifications, (Which was still kindof fuzzy) but two of the three are ready to pass him with the belief that he is not an atheist just currently in "search" of his beliefs and unable to clearly define them. The third is very black and white and has yet to respond. If he doesn't pass him, I am sure he will be recommended for an arbitration and the arbitry committee will be advise of the two to one vote in his favor and why. The District board would like it to be fixed at District, but the vote to approve must also be unanimous of all 3 on the board.

[Gary_Miller]

moosetracker; "They recommend that at the higher ranks (Star & Life) you ask someone from the District to sit on the board of review.. In order for the boy to get use to strange people at their review, and for the District to give some questions that may be formated more towards what the District Board will ask."

Troop Committee responsibility. No District participation allowed.

 

moosetracker; "Coming to the District Board for pre-approval of the Eagle project, is too fold 1) to make sure the project will meet the requirements, and suggest changes if need be. 2) to get the scout use to coming in front of the board."

 

Nope the only reason for district review is to make sure the project meets BSA Guidelines and requirements. This review also does not have to be done in front of the advancement committee, anyone trained as an Eagle Reviewer can do the review.

 

moosetracker; "The Dry run is just another tool to relax the scout about the "unexpected".."

 

There is no "unexpected" at this stage the youth has been through at least 5 BORs. The only difference is the recommended length of time for the review.

 

moosetracker; "Whatever you do to relax a scout about what to expect, is really not a waste of time."

 

If the adults would stop making the EBOR something more than it is then the youth would already be relaxed. And yes its really is a waste of the youths time to have one more thing placed on them at a busy time in their lives.

[Gary_Miller]

moosetracker; "As stated some Boards just refuse to be "re-trained".. They consider themselves right, and the recommendation to change is just another example of BSA getting soft on it's basic principles and allowing anyone who shows up and has a heart beat to pass."

 

I don't think its so much refusing to be "re-trained" as much as it not being trained properly in the first place.

 

moosetracker; "Before the EBOR the scout must meet with the district to have their project approved. Our troop REQUIRES the scout to do a dry run of that which involves the whole committee. That one can be brutal as the whole committee will pick it apart for saftey issues, cost analysis, a realistic view on the time, and people to make the project happen. A good narrative and visuals in presenting the project clearly. If the scout gets through the committee with this the presentation to the District board is a breeze."

 

Finally something that I agree with. Its the Troop committees responsibility to review the the project proposal before it goes to the district. However, from your description it sounds like the committee is doing some over kill.

 

moosetracker; "Even with this issue the board is not being black & white. They went to his religious reference for some clarifications, (Which was still kindof fuzzy) but two of the three are ready to pass him with the belief that he is not an atheist just currently in "search" of his beliefs and unable to clearly define them. The third is very black and white and has yet to respond. If he doesn't pass him, I am sure he will be recommended for an arbitration and the arbitry committee will be advise of the two to one vote in his favor and why. The District board would like it to be fixed at District, but the vote to approve must also be unanimous of all 3 on the board."

 

This sounds crazy. Its not the BOR responsibility to determine if the young man has a belief in a higher power. This should of already been determined by the SM during his SM conference.

 

And I don't understand this "Yet to respond". A decision is suppose to be made at the time of the BOR not weeks or days after.

 

If an unanimous decision is not reached, the applicant must be informed of his options for appealing the decision and the proper process of appeal, from page 33 in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Normally they do. This is an unusual exception in an attempt not to fail the scout. They have already informed the boy of the appeal process should this extra effort doesn't work. They decided to talk to the "religious reference" to figure out his religious aspect, due to the boy first stating he did not believe in God, but respected everyone elses beliefs, with nothing to say what he did believe in. Later after explaining to him this was an issue, he at least stated he was not atheist, there was some sort of higher being, but he did not know how to put his beliefs in words. Personally I would have given it to him for what he said in his defense after being told the issue. But, this was after the board sent him out of the room discussed and came to the agreement to call the religious reference.. This contact took two days to reach him. Then the two discussed it. I now don't know why the third board member has yet to respond, it has been a week, and it is dragging way past where it should have.

 

The ASM brought the scout, and neither the scout nor ASM had an issue with what was going on. The SM has since called, he has talked with the boy and both the ASM & SM was shocked with his answer.. Their comment to those on the Eagle Board.. "You do what you have to do.. We will back you all the way. If he fails, he fails."

 

In the past they had one boy come in and annouce he was an athiest. The board failed him and he lost all his appeals. At least 2 on the board don't want to do that to this scout, because he is not claiming athiesm. He is not trying to wage war with the policies of BSA. But, all 3 on the board must agree.

 

As for the committee reviewing the project, you have alot of committee members, all of them planning to work on the project, part of the questions is preping him for what they know will be ask, others are just enthusiam to know exactly what they would be working on next.

 

As for what the benefits are for the Board doing Project approvals is all about, that is up to the board to come to a conscensis on. Ours is told it is for the two purposes I described, and they are of the understanding this is what their board should accomplish and that is what they work to achieve.. Yours can set your own definition of purpose. I won't say yours is wrong, but because ours is different then yours it does not make ours wrong.

 

Oh I forgot to mention our "COUNCIL" during the annual kick-off meeting holds for older scouts who are getting close to Eagle to a role enactment of a typical EBOR for the older scouts and their parents to come and watch, to get an idea of what the EBOR is going to ask.. The reason for this is the same reason for offering scouts dry runs. So I guess our Council and District both are wrong according to you.

 

I can tell you our original troop knew how they were suppose to run the Troop boards, they were explained, our SM would laughed at the idea of making it so weak and useless.

 

Yes the troop board is the troops, No where does it state a troop can not allow visitors on it's board. Same as a district EBOR is the districts, they still ask for people from troops to sit in as visitors.. Where does it state in stone "No visitors allowed".. It is only recommended that a district member be invited, but it is not required. If the troop sees it as a benifit they will invite the district member. Our troop always did it.

 

Twice now my husband & I have been just visiting other troops with no district affiliation and have been invited to sit on the troops board. The troop wants the boys to get expirience a board with other people, the troop wants to hear our ideas, and I have totally enjoyed learning new ideas from the troops we have been on the board of.

 

If the troop decides it is benificial to open their board up to non-troop members then it is still the troops Board. This is what they have decided to do. No one has taken their power away from them. They are conducting the board the way they want to.

 

Likewise for those who want to re-test the scout for their board, you can train and recommend they don't. But, you can't force them to stop. It's their board.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Twice now my husband & I have been just visiting other troops with no district affiliation"

[moosetracker]

let me clarify, we were registered with a troop, which was a part of a district, so in that case.. Yes we were part of a district.

 

But, at the time we were not in district positions and did not wear little silver tabs on our shoulders.. We were just boyscout members, visiting other troops once while my son was doing his physical fitness MB with the SM of that troop.. I forget the other reason for visiting a different troop. But in both cases it was sort of a "Hey, we are doing our BOR tonight, can you stay and be on the board?"

[qwazse]

Our SMC's (once paperwork is out of the way) are essentially prep. for BOR. For some Life scouts it's been years since their last BOR, so yes it can be nerve racking. Our "coaching" amounts to basic communication skills (think before answering a question, don't reply with more than was asked, etc ...) and reminders that the committee members are there to get to know the boy to whom they are awarding this badge.