Age limits on Merit Badges?

[moosetracker]

I know counselors do have the right to make conditions for how they will teach the MB. Whether it be age, or taught in a group (one person likes to teach Citizen & World that way, so she can have them take on roles at a United Nations).. Or two scouts at a time, or individually (with parent or someone for the two deep Youth Protection).. That is their right. The scout though (as long as the troop has not set up rules), can just take it with a different MB Counselor if they really want to, and don't meet the individual Counselors' requirements.

 

We always stress to the boys, when calling a MB Counselor to set up an appointment. To ask if they may take the MB with them. Not to just inform them they are taking the MB with them. Because the MB Counselor has a right to refuse. It could be conditions they set up, like age. Could be they are counseling their quota of scouts. Could be a family situation that is demanding their full attention at this period of time.

[pinkflame]

It seems to me that there are some things that younger Scouts just won't get to experience if they take certain merit badges too soon. For example, for the Citizenship in the Community requirement about finding out about a community agency and then volunteering some time with that agency, a 12 year old would not have a lot of choices. When I have counseled it the youger boys end up doing stuff like helping out at vacation Bible school or church food pantries. All useful stuff, but I'm not sure how much of it was their choice nor whether those activities will spur them on to volunteer in the community when they get older. Most of the other agencies in our community have either liability limits for young kids or they are so far away that transportation becomes an issue. Some boys have said their family voluteers at this or that place so they will just go along and help, but that's not exactly whst the requirement says to do.

 

Similarly, making and managing a budget for Personal Management isn't much of a job if all you are managing is your lunch money and a small allowance. These days most kids in own community have a lunch account at school that mom just writes a check to every so often, so even that can't be managed. i don't counsel that merit badge, but I remember a mother telling me once that her son was planning their family vacation for his project. Turns out that meant calling relatives along their itnierary and telling them when they would be there to spend the night along with a little net surfing about local attractions. Not exactly "planning" and not exactly a "project", but wha telse can a 12 year old do?

[desertrat77]

Moosetracker, gotta respectfully disagree--while counselors have latitude on instruction style, format, etc., age is an arbitrary discriminator.

 

Pinkflame: in theory the older scouts might pursue a MB more indepth, but please don't underestimate a motivated younger scout. And speaking from personal experience, both as a scout and scouter, there's no guarantee an older scout will appreciate the MB experience better because of his age. Some of these Eagle required MBs are earned at the last minute by Life scouts, who approach the MB as a squarefiller or obstacle.

 

I don't think anyone has suffered injury from taking a citizenship MB (though I still remember mentally suffering though citizenship in the world but I digress). It's about intellect, following instructions, follow-through, and all the other reasons why MBs teach scouts more than the subject itself.

[moosetracker]

It may be discrimatory, it may not.

What if you were a counselor for Horsemanship, but your insurance did not allow anyone to ride your horses until age 14? What if you had worked with younger and older boys and found that you personally could bring a subject to life for the older boys, but just couldn't bring a complex subject (like Nuclear Science) to life for the younger ones. This may be a personal flaw on their part. But tell me how many people in your district will even try to teach something like Nuclear Science at all??

 

Remember Counsilors are not all trained professional teachers. Some are going to have strengths and weaknesses that it would be best for the boys if they did acknowledge them and set up stipulations based on them. BSA still welcomes them flaws and all, if under the right circumstances they make excellent MB counsilors.

 

Now if your troop has a good supply of counselors on a subject and are upset that Mr. _________ will not teach the younger scouts you can direct your scouts to other MB counsilors and not use them. Is this discrimatory? Maybe. Do you have the right to do so.. Sure do!!

[desertrat77]

Moosetrack, I understand legal and safety constraints (horsemanship, ect.)

 

Nuke science? I think you are underestimating the intellect and drive of younger scouts. If they can't grasp it, or don't have an interest, they aren't likely to sign up anyway. But for the others--why stifle that zeal to learn?

 

A counselor cannot say "no" based on age alone. They don't have that right. If a younger scout signs on for a MB, and isn't up to the challenge and can't complete requirements, the counselor definitely has the right to say "sorry, I'm not signing you off on that requirement." But to bar the scout from the get-go because of the assumption that on a magic day when he turns 14 (orwhateverage) that he'll be a thoughtful, productive, respectful student of the subject--that's a stretch.

 

To automatically assume a young scout can't tackle a challenging subject isn't fair to the scout. They are far more capable that most adults will give them credit for. (I see this in the military as well--older folks cramp the initiative of newer troops all the time.)

 

After all, we are talking about Eagle required MBs (mostly)--personal management? Environmental science? The citizenship trio? Good grief, let the young scouts knock these things out--while they still care! For some of them, they may never care again!

 

[moosetracker]

Still it is within the Counselors rights to work within their comfort zone.

 

Same as a Venturing crew still has an option to be all male, all female or co-ed. It is based on (maybe somewhat the scouts), but alot of times on the perseption of the Adult advisors and the Charter Org. what they are comfortable with, or their religion allows.

 

Same as a BSA Unit that only has male adult leaders, and don't allow female adult leaders. It is based on what they are comfortable with, or their religion, or their perspective..

 

All of these from one point of view may be discrimatory.. From another it is allowing units to work within their comfort zone.

 

The same policy holds true of a Merit badge Consoler. He can set the conditions based on his personal comfort zone.

 

I recently found out that the requirements to join Boy Scouts was changed from being 11, or 5th grade or AOL.. Now the condition of AOL has an amendment of the boy must at least be 10 YO.. I know my son didn't make age or grade, and only moved from Cubs to Boy scouts on his AOL.. Had he not, his buddies would have moved on and he would have been without a pack or troop for 6 months.. So is this age discrimatory??.. I think it would have embarrassed my son at the time, but to truth, he was struggling harder then the others to fit in when he joined up. I don't have issue with the policy change.

 

 

I have not yet done so, but I teach the Computers MB.. The older ones have a great time with it. The younger ones, look at me like a deer in the headlights, and usually drift away never to be seen again after a meeting or two. Is it them? Is it me? Don't know, but I am getting the distinct impression they may have enjoyed it a few years later, but I ended up scaring them away from re-taking it when they got older.

 

Maybe it would not be a bad thing for me personally to set an age limit, or question them about their expierience with computers to see if they have a better grasp them most kids their age. I hope before I do I can find someone who does great with that age group for that subject so I can then just suggest they will have a better time with so&so for the counsilor.

 

[Twocubdad]

Which is why the Scoutmaster is involved in the process. He or she should know both the Scout and the MBC and help guide both into a good fit. If the MBC doesn't want to work with 11 year olds, the SM shouldn't send an 11-year-old Scout to him in the first place. If the SM disagrees with with the MBC's age restrictions, the troop needs to find another counselor for that MB. But preferably the SM and MBC are working together and are in agreement regarding age appropriateness.

[boomerscout]

The only merit badge that I know of with a minimum age requirement is SCUBA. Depending on which outside agency the kid trains with (PADI, NAUI, etc.) one must be at least 15 (or 14 or 12 -- one does allow age 10 for junior status).

The automobile mb -- in its various permutations -- used to be age restricted in that you had to earn a driver's license, but that requirement has been removed

At our council camp Horsemanship requires a certain minimum inseam which kind of implies "older".

We've told all our new Scouts that getting to first class first provides a solid foundation for the Scoutcraft category of badges which will make attaining them easier & quicker. Still, we basically allow their free choice.

After viewing all the replies here, I'm going to suggest to my troop that we keep a merit badge feedback binder filled with notes from the younger Scouts on what the sticking points are for the various badges. And, if they had it to do over again, what would they have done differently. Any wanting a blue card for a certain mb will be asked to first peruse the binder or talk to Scouts who already have that mb, or both

[moosetracker]

I suppose if I signed up to be a meritbadge counselor for "Troop only". I could also avoid the issue of getting scouts too young to take the MB.. And just have an agreement with our troop as to what to look for in a young scout. But, although always an option, I thought that much more of an issue.

 

Take my son trying to locate a meritbadge consoler for horsemenship. There were 4 counsilors in our district all "Troop Only".. Long story short, I came to not like the Troop only.. At least age.. Means not this year, but come see me in two or three years and we'll talk. "Troop Only" may mean "never" if it is a MB with a limited number of Consilors.

 

Without doing troop only, and without it being an Eagle Required MB, you have SM signing the blue card, without any knowledge of what skills a boy needs to learn the badge. I don't expect one SM with all the other things he has to oversee to learn every MB out their and know them enough to match skill level with scout.

 

Personally I would prefer the MBC set the limits they are comfortable with rather then hide behind "Troop Only" to make sure they have scouts they are able to work with.

[Lisabob]

Boomer, your binder idea isn't a bad one and probably, the kids do something similar now on a very informal level. Just be careful you don't end up scaring kids away - maybe let the informal mechanisms work on their own, as is already probably happening. Case in point: I read the comments posted here sometimes about the citizenship badges and I know where people are coming from, I guess. On the other hand, my son has 2 of the 3 citizenship badges and he LOVED doing them (he just likes to talk about this stuff, always has). If he had been required to read a file of other scouts' feedback on those, he probably would have been discouraged from doing them. Similarly, he has a very negative view of the chemistry badge, largely due to the way it was (not) taught when he did it at a group event. His "report" (if he wrote one) on that merit badge would almost certainly drive other scouts away from doing it, perhaps unfairly so.

 

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Boomer - I must have done a cross-post. Yours wasn't there when I started writing.

 

As Lisabob said not a bad idea.. But, I would suggest you stipulate the do a critique.. Usually from school kids learn they have to have both positive & negative.. If they love it, they still need to push for how to improve, if they hated it, they still must come up with something positive to say (Other then "Yeah I'm done!")... Also critique reminds them to think before they write. You don't want to have an adult MB read the book to see that Johnny wrote. "Don't do the MB with Mr. T.. He stinks!"..

[Twocubdad]

Ah, frat files.

 

You guys really have enough manpower in your troops to track such things? Impressive. I'm darn well happy just to have someone keeping up with the completed MBs.

 

 

[boomerscout]

"You guys really have enough manpower in your troops to track such things? "

 

I was thinking of giving the task to the troop Librarian, maybe with the help of the Scribe

 

Lisa & Moose: Both good ideas -- emphasize the positive!

[Vicki]

Setting age limits would be adding to the requirements. That one is pretty simple.

 

That said, I am a Personal Management MB counselor. That one in particular is more valuable if taken later if only because the state requires that high school students take a Personal Finance class to graduate. So it dovetails quite nicely with the curriculum. Also, it's helpful if the scout has a part time job so that he actually has some experience with being responsible for money. My favorite was the 16 year old who had his own business selling firewood cut from felled trees on his family farm. That young man had a firm grasp on reality and was a joy to work with!

 

Yeah, I've counseled 13 and 14 year olds, it's not as rewarding as working with the older scouts.

 

Vicki

[sherminator505]

Honestly, I wonder why any Scouter would want to kill a Scout's enthusiasm. I've typically found that merit badges like Personal Management tend to get put off by the Scouts, while others like the Citizenship MB's tend to draw the Scouts' interest earlier. In my view, there is really nothing wrong with this.

 

What I would like to see is the return of what is probably the only good change the BSA made in 1972: First Aid MB required for First Class.