How fast/slow should scouts advance through the ranks?

[LanceEagle]

Interested in getting perspectives on the ideal time frame in which scouts should advance, i.e. how much time between ranks, provided that the scout is active and diligent in meeting his requiriements and responsibilities.

 

 

[Mike F]

Lance,

 

You'll get lots of opinions.

 

We're probably at the extreme end with no expectations beyond get Scout badge ASAP. We do encourage and provide opportunities, however I believe the boys benefit more when they finally wake up and realize they want to advance, so we don't push too hard.

 

We have 13-yr old Tenderfeet who are there for almost everything and also have almost all of the requirements completed for 2nd and 1st Class, but don't want to take the initiative to finish off the last requirements. They will eventually.

 

It's working for us. From the last two year groups (groups of guys who aged out and graduated from High School), 80% of the boys who joined made Eagle seven years later.

[artjrk]

Personally, I would like to see Scouts advance from Scout to !st Class in 1-2 years time, about a year each for Star and Life, followed by 1-2 years for Eagle. This way the Scouts maturity level moves up with the added responsibility each rank brings. I know this is almost twice as long as the minimum time required. There are always exceptions to the rules and some kids mature faster and I don't hold any kid to my timeline. Just my opinion based on experience. I have found those kids who have taken their time and stuck with the program, to be the strongest leaders in the troop. Those that have rushed thru in the minimum time (in my opinion) tend to be in it for themselves (or parents) only and disappear as soon as they reach Eagle.

 

[desertrat77]

LanceEagle, I think the ideal time is different for each scout.

 

As long as the scout is fulfilling his responsibilities, and meeting the requirements, he should be allowed to progress at a pace that is right for him.

 

That said, some may need encouragement to pick up the pace if Eagle is the goal, and the calendar is running out. Others may be moving so fast they are skimming the surface.

 

One position I'm not in favor of is slowing down a scout who is moving fast, yet doing everything properly. Some adults have a hang up about scouts who earn Eagle at a young age. Eagle awardees have to show leadership, but the award itself does not guarantee the wearer has fully polished leadership skills. Even if the Eagle has a few lessons left to learn, they'll "grow into" the rank as they experience more challenges.

 

 

[SMT224]

We run our Troop at about a rank a year. Of those that stay with the Troop for the first year, we have nearly 90% achieving Eagle. We are now having nearly 95% attendance at Troop meetings and outings. We discuss the trail to Eagle when the Scout is either out of middle school or has achieved Star.

 

I know some consider this heresy with regard to both BSA guidance and the way many Troops are run, i.e. 1st Class in the 1st year. Sorry, but we let the guys be Scouts and do Scouting activities -- we do lots of camping and have lots of fun, and provided plenty of opportunity for advancement. But we don't make advancement the number one priority - we make outings, activities, and Scout experiences the number one activity.

 

We let the Scout work though advancement, and get concerned if he is advancing slower than a rank a year. Of course a number of Scouts move along much faster, which is fine - they make great examples for the other Scouts.

 

[evmori]

A Scout should advance as fast or as slow as he is comfortable with.

[Eagle92]

As fast or as slow as he wants. Now I advise scouts I meet and know 3 things: Get to Life before HS as HS tends to make things more difficult, as soon as you get Life begin your project process, and HAVE FUN!

[Dimemaker]

Advancement is like a suntan - something you get naturally whilst having fun in the outdoors."

 

- Lord Baden-Powell

 

[moosetracker]

"Some" boys may make Eagle early, but unless the boy is exceptionally gifted, this should not be the push for the troop.

 

I once heard an SM brag loudly.. "I just had 8 scouts in my troop make eagle before the age of 13." The whole room went quite.. It was not from being impressed with his accomplishments either. If your scouts are consistantly making eagle at a young age, you are NOT running your program right.

 

If you do make it by 13 or 14, I would suggest you just state you made eagle and not use your age as bragging rights. You may have been one of those rare exceptional kids. But, many in the scouting program will question if you truely earned it.. Not to your face, but silently.

 

We have a many boys right down to the wire with spitting distance to their 18th birthdate. But, our troop tries to encourage them to aim for about 16.. When they start getting into girls, cars, and jobs, and work for college entrance.. It is much harder to also fit in the Eagle project.. Many of our boys do it, but then they are on the front line telling their friends not to follow in their footsteps.

[Lisabob]

It is too dependent on the boy in question for there to be a right or wrong answer to your query. Some boys really like advancement. Some boys couldn't give a hoot about it. Some boys like the skill-based requirements but hate merit badges, or vice versa. Some struggle with POR or scout spirit fulfillment. Some boys move very slowly (or very quickly) at one stage and then do a complete change-up when they hit another stage in their development. Trying to have a standard answer within a troop, or a patrol, or even "in general" in scouting, just does not really work.

 

What you can do is to make sure the opportunities are readily available and that the boys understand what they ought to do, if they want to make progress toward the next rank. You can encourage them to set goals (whether advancement-related or otherwise) and you can help them learn how to plan and break down a seemingly huge task into manageable chunks, in order to reach those goals. And maybe give an occasional wake-up to boys who seem to have a goal but no clear strategy or action to reach the goal.

[Twocubdad]

We're in the process of examining the whole First Year/First Class theory in our troop. The push to First Class breeds a lot of problems, not the least of which is lack of time to adequately master T-2-1 skills. In the past we've always had a mad scramble for everyone to serve as patrol cook for the First Class cooking requirement. The way it worked meant that when you met the requirement was likely the only time you served as patrol cook. Our challenge to the boys now is for it to be the BEST time you served as patrol cook. So we're going at a little more slowly. Maybe we emphasize First Class/First 18-to-24 months.

 

The other negative effect of First Year/First Class is setting the expectation to blow through Boy Scout ranks like Webelos activity pins. Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class in one year, but you want me to do Star, Life and Eagle over SIX YEARS?? There's a disconnect.

 

Except for stretching T-2-1 over more like two year, the progression artjrk laid out seems about right. Probably less than a year to Star, about a year to Life and another 18-24 months to Eagle. That generally put a Scout at Eagle sometime around 16 and maybe in the 10th grade -- all greatly plus and minus.

 

I think we owe our Scouts their best opportunity to learn ethical decision making, citizenship, character development, fitness, leadership and all the stuff Scouting promises. That best opportnity comes over a four or five years and at different levels of maturity. A 12- or 13-year-old Eagle has not been given the best opportunity Scouting has to offer.

 

When I do conferences with young boys for Tenderfoot, I always ask if there is a point of the Scout Law they don't understand. It's ALWAYS either Thrifty or Reverent. So I have them pick up their handbook and read the book definition. I explain that as a Tenderfoot Scout, I want them to understand the dictionary definition of the words. But part of growing as a Scout is taking the time to think about what the Oath and Law means to them. I tell them by the time they are sitting down with me for a Life or Eagle conference, I want them to tell me what they believe it means, even if that may disagree with what the book says.

 

A 12- or 13-year-old Eagle has not had the time for that sort of growth.

 

[Eagle92]

I've told this story before, so I'll abbreviate it a tad bit so as not to bore everyone else who has heard it before.

 

I know two Eagles. Eagle 1 was the son of an Eagle and Exploring Silver recipient. Eagle 1's dad pushed him to get Eagle by thirteen so that HS wouldn't get in the way, and he met that goal and promptly dropped out. he returned as a TCDL when his son got involved.

 

Eagle 2 is #1's cousin. He was a go getter, listened to his Eagle uncle, and wanted to model Eagle 1. Got to Life at 13, got his project done within 4-6 months of getting Life, but really got hooked on Scouting. He went through the council's advance youth leader training course. He went to a National Scout Jamboree, and did a canoeing expedition in Canada. He also got involved in the OA. He finally got Eagle at 18, and stayed on as a leader. Eagle 2 had more wonderful experiences like working at scout camp in the UK as part of the European Camp Staff Program, served on summer camp staff in 2 different councils for 5 years, And I can go on and on. I've been involved in Scouting for 28 years now, and it keeps getting. I have not only learned a lot, but have had the privilege of working with some of the best youth. And yes, I have had a lot of FUN all this time.

 

So the focus shouldn't be on advancement. Rather it should focus on mastering those basic life skills of self reliance, teamwork, and citizenship. Once he masters those, than he can focus on mastering leadership skills by working with and mentoring those younger scouts under him.

 

[bacchus]

My personal opinion is that you work the program and let advancement take care of itself. Scouts is really 2 programs, scouting and rank advancement. If a scout wants to work hard on his own and advance faster than the norm I don't see a problem with that as long as he is taking care of his responsibilities in the Patrol and Troop. if a scout wants to ignore the rank advancement and still takes care of his responsibilities that is fine too.

 

However, what I find more often is the extremes. Scouts who have semi-dropped-out and come back to finish Eagle right before they turn 18, and scouts who want to keep the rank advancement going early on. Unfortunately, there are many adults out there who think they are the "keepers of the Eagle" and if a scout is too young, will set up roadblocks and barriers. Those same adults will bend over backwards and bend the rules to get a 17-year-old to Eagle by his birthday.

[OldGreyEagle]

its been awhile since this came up, so here we go again

 

My understanding of The First Class First Year progam is that it is Unit Centered, not individual centered. In following First Class First Year a Troop commits to having a program/calendar that if a scout attended the program presented, he could reach First Class in a Year.

 

I am not aware of anything in the BSA that says to reach First Class in a year, that any corners be cut or skills left untuned. The Scout must learn and demonstrate that knowledge and then be given the opportunity to use that skill/knowledge

[jhankins]

I once spoke with a Scoutmaster who said to his boys "A 12 year old Eagle doesn't do anyone any service, let alone the boy. You'll have to really impress me with your skills knowledge and understanding of Scouting in your conference to get past me."

 

I thought that was pretty harsh, but it turns out the boys made sure they understood what they were learning, they made sure to have the skills under their belts. None have reached Eagle at 12, but at 14-16, they've been some of the most impressive young men in my district.