Star Board of Review - Legal before 4 months?

[Beavah]

I am of the opinion that Scouts should be allowed to advance as quickly as possible. I realize not everybody feels that way and some of those reasons may be valid. I will say that my son has earned 15 merit badges already and is definitely a go-getter.

 

Yah, so here's somethin' for you to try.

 

Pick one of those badges your son has earned. Somethin' with a practical application is easiest, like First Aid. Take a badge he has earned relatively recently, last three or four months or so.

 

Give him a scenario or ask him to perform a task for that MB. Compound fracture of the ankle, with resultant shock might be a good one, if your son is a real go-getter. Or puttin' together and running a safe canoe trip on his own for a lad with First Class and Canoeing MB.

 

Is he/would he be successful with no adult help? Nobody giving him hints or prompting him?

 

That's what a badge is supposed to mean and da only reason one should be awarded.

 

There's nothing at all wrong with a lad advancing quickly. It's to be encouraged, so long as the boy is also taking full advantage of the other 7 methods of scouting in the same measure. But more often than not, rapid advancement becomes about the patch and not about really gettin' good at the skill, and that just cheapens the experience for everybody.

 

Me, I always get a bit skeptical when multiple lads are advancing right at the bare minimum timelines. That's almost always an "advancement mill" that cheats good kids of a full scouting experience. I think that hurts go-getter boys the most, eh? Those kids in particular should be challenged, and should be doin' more than the bare minimum.

 

My preference is da same as John-in-KC's and Vicki's, eh? I think it's nicer in terms of Adult Association to hold BORs flexibly in an on-demand sort of way. Though I have to admit that the units that do things that way often fail to hold non-advancement BORs, which is a real loss. The units that do the scheduled once a month sort of things more often schedule everybody on some sort of rotation, so in that way they do a better job. Da quarterly BOR thing usually happens when a troop only holds BORs immediately prior to a Court of Honor, so it tends to be a bit more da advancement-milling thing, or a way of managing a large number of kids in a focused way. Like da French Tribunals, they're almost trying and sentencing kids in batches . Makes things easier on the adults, too, in a bigger troop.

 

As with lots of things in Scouting, there's no one right way. But we all have our preferences. Most of us, especially da old timers, don't care for the quarterly BOR thing in particular.

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad]

Of all the things going on in this situation I'm not thrilled over, fudging one day on the boy's time in position is by far the least objectionable.

[Thomas54]

 

Did he post when these scouts crossed over? Was it last year and are they reaching Star in about 12 months? That's pretty fast for a 12 year old to absorb all the material before him, such as first aid, cooking, camping skills, let alone leadership skills in the POR.

 

A more experienced SM and CC would have been able to see this coming and perhaps steered this away from the apparent conflict. The new leadership is a bit befuddled on how to handle something that seems to be putting advancement ahead of skills and the overall Scout persona, service, helpful...

 

 

 

[acco40]

There's fudging and there's fudging. On an Eagle application, the natinal council can't really test the Scouts apptitude in First Aid but they can check dates and if the proper unit of time has not elapsed for that Scout between advancement - the Eagle application is rejected.

 

 

[Eagle92]

As one who had their records fouled up by council, I can tell you first hand that national does indeed check the dates on apps and will reject any Eagle app with problems. It may not hit your Scout at first, but it will come back to bite him.

 

In my case the registrar would list the date someone earned rank and MBs as the date she entered it into the council's database (pre SCOUTNET), not the date on the advancement report. SOOO if you were listed on 2 reports, and she only got to the first one with you on it on one day, and that happened to be the one with your BOR, and the one that listed your MBs for the rank on the next day, council did reject the Eagle application 4 years later. OR if your BOR for Star was exactly 4 months form First Class BOR, but it took her a week to input the First Class BOR, and then your Star BOR get inputed the day she puts it in, which isn't exactly 4 months form 1st class, again national will flag it.

[bacchus]

Moral of the story: Keep your cards.

[markrvp]

A lot of the conversation in this thread is discussing "when did the scouts join, who are the scouts, are you related to the scouts..." None of these are requirements for advancing in rank. I am a "by the rules" kind of guy (my father is a judge). If the rules say a Scout may advance after completing XYZ requirements, then I believe it is contrary to the BSA guidelines to make it harder to advance.

 

A scout would not be in a position to advance to Star if he had not already demonstrated proficiency in camping, first aid, basic swimming, etc.

 

All three of the scouts in question have a minimum of 18 nights campout experience. Two of them have over 20. Our troop is VERY active in scouting activities, just poor in the execution of Board of Reviews.

 

I had an hour long talk with the CC last night and he has agreed that BORs should be handled by the Advancement Chair. That will be announced at the meeting Monday night. I've talked to the Advancement Chair and she believes BORs should be handled on an "as-needed" basis. I am thrilled with this outcome as I believe it conforms to BSA Guidelines and is fair to Scouts who want to advance.

 

Keep in mind that not every Scout cares about advancing. I have a mother upset with me right now because I arranged for her two sons to cook on a campout this weekend to meet the requirements for their Camping merit badge they are taking at Summer Camp. For whatever reason, she's upset that her kids are being "forced" to cook. Whatever. If my legacy in this troop is making it possible for kids to advance who actually want to, then I'm okay with that.

[Eagledad]

Yes, but SCOUTNET has fixed most problems now. We used to average three errors on the books for each Eagle applicant before Scoutnet. We averaged an EBOR ever 2.5 months, so that was a lot of errors. But after SCOUTNET, no errors were found on any of the scouts while I was involved with the program. Now I dont know where SCOUTNET has gone in the last few years, but I think the units were putting the dates in the database. So if there was an error, it was from the unit. Does SCOUTNET let the user even put an incorrect date like completing Star in less than four months?

 

Barry

 

[Eagle92]

Bac,

 

What cards? Seriously though, Council registrar used a copy of my BSHB as the official record since it had all the dates and signatures in it. Ditto for the other folks who had problems.

[Beavah]

A lot of the conversation in this thread is discussing "when did the scouts join, who are the scouts, are you related to the scouts..." None of these are requirements for advancing in rank. I am a "by the rules" kind of guy (my father is a judge). If the rules say a Scout may advance after completing XYZ requirements, then I believe it is contrary to the BSA guidelines to make it harder to advance.

 

Yah, then I think you're not understandin' Scouting quite yet, markrvp.

 

As someone who occasionally deals with da law, let me tell you that scouting and raising kids more generally has nothing to do with rules and how we conduct trials in court. Kids are a lot more dynamic and complimicated than a dispute over a building code (and those are complicated enough)!

 

If anything, scouting is like parenting, eh? Or some other big thing we do with kids. Yeh can't think of it like it's a set of rules.

 

Advancement, in particular, is just a kids' game. It's a fun tool we use to help some kids grow. It's not our focus or what we're really about, and when it becomes da primary focus of adults (or youth), then odds are we're doin' it poorly.

 

I think yeh should think of Advancement like a video game. Yeh can go at your own pace, try and try until yeh make the next level with no real penalty for trying. It's fun. But like a video game, if it takes over most of a boy's scouting time, that's too much. A wise parent or scouter will tell the boy to cut back, or make up new "rules" like only 1 hour a day, or no game until yeh do everything you're capable of in your POR.

 

We don't care about kids advancing or making the next level in the game. We just care about 'em growin' as young men. That's how good scouting, and good parenting, is done.

 

Glad things seem to be movin' forward with some new ideas in your troop!

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[bacchus]

Beavah,

I think it's getting a little off topic of the thread, but I am really starting to see parallel programs. One is the advancement program, and the other is the scouting leadership/team dynamics program. I almost wish they could be separated.

[Stosh]

bacchus, congratulations, you have hit the nail on the head. The two often times are mutually exclusive. A boy can earn his Eagle and show very little leadership or leadership skill. All he has to do is go through the motions, meet the expectations and get the prize. On the other hand some of the most powerful leaders I have met are fly-by-the-seat-of-their-pants people who somehow get the others to follow them no matter how difficult it might be. This person doesn't worry about requirements or expectations, only getting the job done and everyone safely through to the end. If it means bending rules and cutting corners, they don't hesitate.

 

What they end up with is others that will follow this scout anywhere he needs to get them to. They don't care what patch is on his shirt, or what skills he possesses, but what they do care about is believing in his ability to care for them and champion their needs. That's not a skill listed in any requirement for the Eagle rank award.

 

I have seen Eagle projects where the scout only cared about himself and his success on his project to the point where he bullied and badgered his helpers to get the job done that they resented him. Somehow that got translated into "show leadership". Yeah, right.

 

Stosh