Star Board of Review - Legal before 4 months?

[ScoutNut]

The date of the BOR is the date a boy starts in his new rank. This is stated in various BSA sources, including the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures.

 

When a boy goes for Eagle, both his Council, and National, will check out the dates listed on his application, and in ScoutNet, VERY carefully. You do not want this boy's Eagle derailed for want of 1 day.

 

Since your Troop only holds BOR's every 3 months, or more, this boy has 3 options -

 

1) He waits until your Committee can convene a BOR sometime after the 25th.

 

2) You can intervene on his behalf to see if the Advancement Chair will hold the BOR on the 24th but date it as the 25th or 26th on the Advancement Report, and in all records.

 

3) He can find a new Troop.

 

 

 

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

markrvp,

 

Does this Scout happen to be your son?

[T2Eagle]

The ACP&P Manual says a BOR should be held after all the requirements have been met. But it also says "The review should be held at a convenient time and location." I don't think three months later meets the test of convenient. Certainly it would not be seen that way by a 13 or 14 year old. So if these are really your only choices you are going to be in violation of the ACP&P either way. Since that's the situation, you should be in violation on behalf of the scout: use common sense and hold the review. This kind of legalistic parsing of the rules, including the argument I just provided, shouldn't be the guiding principles of the program.

 

Again from ACP&P: "The review has three purposes: To make sure the "work" has been learned and completed.(emphasis added) To see how good an experience the Scout is having in his unit. To encourage the Scout to advance to the next rank." None of these purposes will be contravened by holding the review a couple dozen hours early, but the last two could be by making the Scout wait three more months.

 

As to what's the rush, most likely this Scout set himself the goal of earning Star in the minimum amount of time, he's done everything he can to achieve that goal, that's a noble thing that should be encouraged not discouraged.

 

The scout has learned, he's been tested, now review him and recognize him.

[Vicki]

NE-IV-88Beaver - what difference does it make?

 

In view of the assumptions others have made concerning this scout and his troop in this thread, this is beginning to take on an unpleasant tone - as do so many of these threads.

 

Vicki

[John-in-KC]

T2Eagle...

 

The one downside of "a few hours early" is if this Scout advances to Eagle, the qualification check by the Council Registrar will fail if the date is not 4 calendar months downstream from First Class.

 

Such is the joy (job) of ScoutNet.

 

Sigh.

[markrvp]

There are 3 boys all in this same situation, one of whom is my son, yes.

[John-in-KC]

Mark,

 

What is your position in the Troop, as a registered Scouter?

[Beavah]

The ACP&P Manual says a BOR should be held after all the requirements have been met. But it also says "The review should be held at a convenient time and location."

 

Yah, I reckon since da ACP&P is written for adults, that means at a convenient time and location for those adults, eh? It's probably a bit of a stretch to turn that into at the boy's convenience.

 

Yah, markrvp, I'm sorta wondering here. If the troop conducts quarterly BORs, how is it that three lads are coming up for timely review after exactly 4 months? I'd think on quarterly BORs, they'd be every three months. Would work out perfectly for Life and Eagle, and only be a bit off for Star.

 

Honestly, mate, I don't see yeh getting anywhere with this. Yeh can't sell other people's time, eh?. Looks even worse when you're trying to force them to do it on your/your son's behalf. If this is somethin' to change in your troop, it's something the SM should address with the CC and AC in a more general way.

 

If you're lookin' for the rapid advancement thing, yeh might want to find a different unit, though to be honest your unit is pretty "up there" on the rapid advancement scale compared to most, given their push for Eagle by age 14.

 

Beavah

 

[bacchus]

I have to side with Mark here. It doesn't matter to me that his son is one of the three affected by the timing. I think he would advocate for the other two even if his son wasn't involved.

 

If a scout has earned the rank, why the hesitation to let him advance? These young men are up against so much. Why in the world so many want to throw additional obstacles in their path is beyond me.

 

One thing though, I suggest the proper way to do this BOR is hold it on the 25th or as soon thereafter as possible. Surely you can get three people from the committee to volunteer and show up.

[markrvp]

"What is your position in the Troop, as a registered Scouter?"

 

I am an Assistant Scoutmaster, registered and trained. I will be attending Wood Badge this Fall.

 

One of the interesting things about Scouting is the wide difference of opinions. I am of the opinion that Scouts should be allowed to advance as quickly as possible. I realize not everybody feels that way and some of those reasons may be valid. I will say that my son has earned 15 merit badges already and is definitely a go-getter.

 

Thanks everybody for the information. I agree it is simply not worth the risk of losing an Eagle badge over trying to get the BOR done a few hours early. The fathers of the other two scouts talked to me today and they are also upset, but it is what it is.

[Adam S]

Is there any reason they cannot discuss the three boys, and then table their decision until they next day and make it on a conference call?

 

Adam

[evmori]

I have a question - why do they have to wait so long for another BOR?

[John-in-KC]

My two cents:

 

I think I'm a reasonable man. If you start the clock when the Scout asks the Advancement Coordinator for a Board of Review for advancement, then I believe it reasonable for the Coordinator to say "Bill, I'll let you know next week if I have a quorum. Meet me during pre-meeting and if I do, I'll give you a time and a place. Are all your other requirements done? Good, may I borrow your Scout handbook this week?"

 

The ball is now in the Advancement Coordinator's court. He/she goes out and asks the CC if he wants to sit in (imnsho opinion, the CC should routinely sit in on BORs ... it's that feedback to the program thing), then he asks other members of the Committee. When a quorum is had, and a time is set, the Coordinator visits the Scout at +1 week and tells him something like "Next week, 7PM, here, ahead of the meeting."

 

Now, both sides are being courteous of each others' time, helpful in making advancement happen, and friendly in teaching the Scout about managing appointments.

 

Three months? I wanted to use old Army invective when I heard that.

 

Mark, I think this is one where you ask the SM, to carry your water ... directly to the COR. Adults do have responsibilities in a Scout unit ... to implement the Adult Association Method among other things. This is an area where the COR can give directive in nature guidance to the Committee

 

As I said, my thoughts...

[Vicki]

As John was with me earlier, so I am with him now.

 

I applaud your taking the high road as regards your son and I certainly understand why you might choose not to press the issue. However, going forward, please do not let this matter slide. Once a quarter is not often enough to do Boards of Review, especially not in the lives of teen-age boys. It is not spoiling them to consider what is age-appropriate. I would also suggest that it subtracts substantially from the feeling of accomplishment to have to wait too long for a recognition.

 

We're losing enough boys as it is without introducing artificial hurdles.

 

Vicki

[markrvp]

Vicki:

 

I totally agree with your stance on "artificial hurdles"

 

Monday night there is an "all adults" meeting to clear the air. The advancement chair and I both agree that it should be her call as to scheduling BORs and we will push to make it that way. She's said she doesn't have a problem with having two other committee members over to her house to do a Board of Review if one is needed outside of normal meetings. That's the kind of adult commitment that I was looking for.

 

Having a new Scoutmaster and new CC in one year is hard. Too many personalities all trying to exert themselves at once.