Failure to act as bugler for Star advancment

[rdclements]

Hi BrentAllen, I'm glad that you agree with me; the buck stops with the SM. In this case, the SM did not act appropriately, and that's not the Bugler's fault. If the troop activity schedule didn't do ask much from the QM, would you penalize the scout who had volunteered for that role too?

 

"Do we really want to be teaching Scouts that getting credit for doing nothing is appropriate?" Of course not, so the SM does not get credit. We teach accountability. Stand up and say, "I will try to do better for you next time."

 

There are many teaching moments available in the corrective actions needed with this troop. None of them are to punish any of the scouts, or take anything away from them.

 

-R

[BrentAllen]

R-

Well, we may agree on that one point, but I don't see much else we agree on.

 

So, in your book, the Scout doesn't have any responsibility in this issue? He shouldn't ever approach the SM and ask about his position? Or draw up his own job description? Or ask when and where he can work a bugle call into the program? In your book, he should just sit there for 6 months and do nothing? That's not the type of leader we are trying to build in our Troop.

 

We should be teaching if someone drops the ball, you pick it up and run with it. Not that if someone drops the ball, you get a free pass. People are going to make mistakes all the time. How you deal with those mistakes is how you define your character.

 

What are you going to do when the next Scout comes up and says he wants to be Bugler, and he wants to do the same thing this Scout did? That is only fair, right? If you demand more from him than you did the other Scout, he is going to say you are being unfair. Why should he have to do more than the other Bugler?

[rdclements]

You are right, the scout should have done all of those things. Apparently he did not. The next bugler should be held to the same standard that this one SHOULD have been held to.

 

"People are going to make mistakes all the time. How you deal with those mistakes is how you define your character." Absolutely. In this example, however, when the scout failed to carry out his responsibilities - "pick it up and run with it" - his leadership team failed him.

 

In the OP, mikemayer67 said, "I should have redirected his POR much earlier and not failed to catch it until the SMC." Yep, that covers it. We don't punish youth for adult mistakes.

[boomerscout]

bugler is not a POR position

[Oak Tree]

boomerscout, can you elaborate?

 

From scouting.org (emphasis mine):

While a First Class Scout, serve actively 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility (or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop):

Boy Scout troop. Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, Venture patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, bugler, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, troop Webmaster, or Leave No Trace trainer.

 

 

[evmori]

Bugler is a POR for each rank except Eagle

[frank10]

Since the requirement includes "(or carry out a Scoutmaster-assigned leadership project to help the troop):"

and since Mikemayer67 stated "1) Scout also holds position of APL. In our troop, APLs do a lot more leadership than the scribe, librarian, or TOAR. (These scouts do their jobs... it's just that our APLs do a lot more.) It bugs me to no end that APL doesn't count for a leadership position, but nobody has asked me yet.... "

 

Why not give the scout credit for the leadership he did show. If this troop assigns extra weight to the APL position they can assign more credit too.

 

[jeff-o]

And a minor suggestion going forward -- for this troop and anyone else -- perhaps next time someone wants to be bugler, they be asked to audition for it. Then we will all know if they can actually play the instrument.

[Stosh]

I'm not to sure on the audition part. I don't think that in prior years that BSA expected the boy to play, but did expect him to learn to play. None of the other POR's require auditions, why would this one be different?

 

Stosh

[artjrk]

I have seen the Bugler play trumpet, trombone and even French horn. I know of very few boys able to actually play a bugle. Even though I bought an official BSA bugle on ebay just in case.

 

I don't expect him to be perfect but be able to play whatever instrument he uses. Just as I don't appoint an Instructor unless I feel they have the the skills they will be teaching. Learning how to teach can be done "on-the-job" same as learning the actual bugle calls can do while in position.

 

Side note: A year ago on the new scouts first camp. Some of the new guys had gone to bed early when the bugler pulled out his trumpet to play Taps. Well, the whole time he played one just awoken scout kept yelling "SHUT UP" "I'M TRYING TO SLEEP" "WHAT ARE YOU NUTS". He had no concept of a bugler. All the leaders just cracked up laughing. I did go over to the tent to explain the situation to the confused and groggy scout.

[evmori]

Let's see. A bugler is required to make appropriate bugle calls, as requested, at troop/team activities. In order to do this, the Scout must be able to play the instrument. So, an audition would be appropriate.

[Brian85]

All of the advice is great.

 

The boy is going to understand the policy and will live with it. I hope it does not have any later advancements and the final goal of Eagle. If it doesn't, cya when its done.

 

The much harder sell is going to be Dad. I hope Dad did not go out and buy a real no kidding bugle. Trumpet, cornet, or bugle can be used to perform as a bugler. I know, I used a cornet. Dad has been fed his son's version of the story, and that is going to be the obstacle.

 

I wonder if we look at the POR forum if there is a Dad asking about what is and is not allowed and how his son has been assigned as the Bugler for 6 months and now he is being told that he can't advance because he hasn't been performing as the bugler like the SM thought he should have been, blah, blah, blah...

 

Best of Luck to you.

[mikemayer67]

Fortunately, there is not a financial element to this. The scout was given the troop bugle (after we sanitized it).

[John-in-KC]

Mike,

 

I think a SMC is in order when a youth is about to take on a POR. Expectations form both adult and youth should be addressed.

 

I think parents should be contacted as a youth prepares to take a POR. If the parents are not supportive, the youth may be set up for a hard failure. This is all the more true if there is a separated/blended family, where Mommy and/or Daddy is not playing nice with the other.

 

I think a SM should keep an eagle eye over his troop officers, cheerleading them as needed, and encouraging them when necessary.

 

I think the SM should have an older youth member or adult who has the needed skills to provide an advisor for the youth. This is all the more true in a POR such as Musician (bugler), where not all of us can read music.

 

Finally, EagleSon, as a camp staffer, plays bugle calls on his sousaphone. His professor would kill him if he screwed up his embouchure by taking on a small mouthpiece.

[gcnphkr]

Now when I have a scout wanting a PORs I tell them I will be happy to acknowledged their position once they start living it. Anyone that wants to play the bugle is allowed to but doing so does not make him the Bugler. If someone does it regularly he will be recognized at the Troop Bugler. Anyone can teach a skill to other scouts, but the ones that do so regularly will be recognized as Instructors.