New Definition of "ACTIVE"

[Eagle92]

According to this website

 

http://usscouts.org/advance/changes/advchanges10.asp#active

 

New regs on "active" for advancement

 

Definition of "ACTIVE

A Scout will be considered "active" in his unit if he is

 

Registered in his unit (registration fees are current)

Not dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons

Engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (informed of unit activities through Scoutmaster conference or personal contact, etc.

In communication with the unit leader on a quarterly basis.

(Units may not create their own definition of active; this is a national standard.)

 

If the Scout does not initiate communication, the unit leader is to contact the Scout and ask if the youth wishes to remain in Scouting. If the answer is negative, then the unit leader should no longer communicate with the Scout. If the answer is affirmative, the unit leader should provide the unit calendar. After six months of nonparticipation, the unit leader ay cease to contact with the youth and drop the Scout from the unit at recharter time.

 

The Scout may return to the unit at any time while on the unit charter. At any time a Scout is dropped from a charter, the youth may re-apply to a unit for readmission; the acceptance of the application is at the discretion of the unit. The youth would be reinstated at the rank and level that can be documented by either the Scout or the unit.

 

 

[evmori]

Big improvement!

[sandspur]

So let me see if I understand.

 

A scout is active if he pays his dues at the start of the year, never shows up for any meetings or activities, including campouts, but the scoutmaster e-mails every few months.

If the SM mass e-mails a troop newsletter, I guess that is contact as long as the message did not bounce back as undeliverable.

 

Why do I suspect national is really interested in keeping numbers as high as possible?

 

[Beavah]

Yah, they should keep tryin'.

 

Amateur policy writin' again.

 

What's particularly absent (still) is adherence to the Rules & Regulations of the BSA, and any sense of using advancement to convey to boys what a man of character and values would really consider "active" or "serving actively."

 

This version sure sounds a lot more picky and convoluted than a straight percentage participation requirement, eh? Units can't set strict percentage numbers. I think that's an OK thing, prevents stuff from gettin' too strict when yeh should be looking at a kid's circumstances. Now Irving is setting hard numbers of 3 months, 6 months, etc. Some troops and most packs don't meet in da summer months. So if we're followin' the letter here the unit leaders are goin' to have to make a lot of phonecalls!

 

It starts to get a bit ridiculous when national level guidance gets this particular. Many if not most unit calendars are online these days, so how does a unit leader "provide" it specially? And we can't and shouldn't tell a unit or a CO that they must give their time and treasure to a lad just because he's still on the council's charter. Heck, in some councils it takes years before dropped lads are removed.

 

There's an easy solution, eh?

 

Trust the people that da parents are trusting to take their kids into the wild. Tryin' to write this sorta thing on a national basis across youth from ages 5 to 20 is goin' to fail, eh? It's goin' to do more damage than good.

 

My understandin' was that there was better wording on the table, but it got "committee-ified".

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Scoutfish]

COOL! Now if they could only do that to ALL the other rules too!

[sandspur]

Well, maybe notDoes say you can drop a scout after six months of nonresponse or non-scout initiated contact.

 

But at recharter.

 

So is the nonresponsive scout active until recharter?

 

[Scoutfish]

 

 

This is great! Your scout not doing anything? Drop him!" That is a very specific way to move on.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Well at least now we know how BSA defines "... maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis." (from the last definition of "Active")

 

Sandspur, I beleive leaving the nonresponsive on the charter until recharter is the simplest thing to do. Someone (hopefully the scout) paid his registration fee for the year. If you drop him off the charter, could there be a claim for the rest of the year? Why not just drop him at recharter? If after six months and the Adults stop contacting the scout, how long will it be to recharter?

 

if the scout contacts you after not being seen for 8 months and says he really wants to get back to scouting, who here would not pursue it? With a goodwill understanding with the scout over what he needs to do of course. Now, if he is 17 years and 9 months old and wants to get his Life BOR done and Eagle done, that's different

[Twocubdad]

This is still bull.

 

Their underlying definition of "active" has not changed and still contradicts any reasonably common usage of the word "active."

 

All this does is clarify the role of the unit leader in dealing with an inactive Scout. Oops, sorry, the Scout is still active, he just been in "nonparticipation" status.

 

And please correct me if I am wrong, but does an unit/chartered organization not have the right to drop a member at any time for any reason? If our unit/CO adopts a policy that the membership of an individual who fails to attend X percent of meetings and activities will be immediately dropped from the roster, how does national have the authority to dictate otherwise?

 

Quit playing word games. National should collectively grow a pair and drop the "Be active..." requirement from all the ranks.

[emb021]

"Trust the people that da parents are trusting to take their kids into the wild. Tryin' to write this sorta thing on a national basis across youth from ages 5 to 20 is goin' to fail, eh? It's goin' to do more damage than good."

 

Well, I think that had this been done in the past, this might never had been a problem.

 

Am sure that most troop had reasonable (tho probably undocumented) 'active policy' such kids who were clearly 'not active' weren't able to advance.

 

And there were probably some troop that went with percentages. And a few who abused the concept.

 

But when parents complain or appeal to councils due to ANY denial of their 'little darlings' getting advancement because they weren't active (regardless of how the troops were handling it), National reacted with the nonsense 'active = registered' policy we've been dealing with since.

 

I personally blame 'helicopter parents' then overstrick troops in this problem.

 

[John-in-KC]

Be careful of what you ask for; you just might get it.

 

Three years ago, we were introduced to the new definition of active. People were all over the map and wanted the National Council to define it. Well, remember what we got?

 

For some, including more than a few here, the definition wasn't good enough.

 

Well, someone in the Council Solutions Group at National heard your complaints. A combination of volunteers and professionals have now told you exactly how to suck the egg. The additive comments strip away any remaining discretion which units and local Councils had.

 

Beavah: Sadly, as you have told us, the R&R are the corporate policy stuff. The program guidance is what's available on the ground. I agree, this policy is not the answer, yet it is THE ANSWER GIVEN.

 

So, for all of you who did not understand registered+engaged by leadership = Active, you now have it. Enjoy sucking eggs.

[Basementdweller]

scoutfish...... At the cub level, active doesn't really matter. There really isn't positions of responsibilities or required events such as camping or service projects. Generally if the boys shows he advances.

 

Where it comes into play is the life scout that stops showing at about 14, then occasionally cherry picking events till he is 17 and filling out college resume's then he rushes to finish his eagle.

 

There is a bunch of unfair and ugly things that happen as a result.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

How does a scout who does not come to meetings, or events ever do anything to advance?

[Scoutfish]

Now, even though I am in Cubs, I was talking about Boy Scouts, Other wise, I would have said the DL or CM should just call mom and dad and see what the deal is.

 

AS far as active..well,maybe that definition says : "We don't care what you do as long as you pay your $$$$"

But realistixcally, and as I se pointed out all the time in EBOR related posts:: A scout who doesn't participate usually also doesn't do anthing to earn an advancement.

 

FOR EXAMPLE:

 

First Class Rank Requirements

 

 

1.

Demonstrate how to find directions during the day and at night without using a compass.

 

2.

Using a map and compass, complete an orienteering course that covers at least one mile and requires measuring the height and/or width of designated items (tree, tower, canyon, ditch, etc.).

 

3.

Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings.

 

4a.

Help plan a patrol menu for one campout that includes at least one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner, and that requires cooking at least two of the meals. Tell how the menu includes the foods from the food pyramid and meets nutritional needs.

 

4b.

Using the menu planned in requirement 4a, make a list showing the cost and food amounts needed to feed three or more boys and secure the ingredients.

 

4c.

Tell which pans, utensils, and other gear will be needed to cook and serve these meals.

 

4d.

Explain the procedures to follow in the safe handling and storage of fresh meats, dairy products, eggs, vegetables, and other perishable food products. Tell how to properly dispose of camp garbage, cans, plastic containers, and other rubbish.

 

4e.

On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in require- ment 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup.

 

5.

Visit and discuss with a selected individual approved by your leader (elected official, judge, attorney, civil servant, principal, teacher) your constitutional rights and obligations as a U.S. citizen.

 

6.

Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of native plants found in your community.

 

7a.

Discuss when you should and should not use lashings. Then demonstrate tying the timber hitch and clove hitch and their use in square, shear, and diagonal lashings by joining two or more poles or staves together.

 

7b.

Use lashing to make a useful camp gadget.

 

8a.

Demonstrate tying the bowline knot and describe several ways it can be used.

 

8b.

Demonstrate bandages for a sprained ankle and for injuries on the head, the upper arm, and the collarbone.

 

8c.

Show how to transport by yourself, and with one other person, a person

 

■From a smoke-filled room

■With a sprained ankle, for at least 25 yards

 

 

8d.

Tell the five most common signals of a heart attack. Explain the steps (procedures) in cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR).

 

9a.

Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe trip afloat.

 

9b.

Successfully complete the BSA swimmer test.*

 

9c.

With a helper and a practice victim, show a line rescue both as tender and as rescuer. (The practice victim should be approximately 30 feet from shore in deep water.)

 

10.

Tell someone who is eligible to join Boy Scouts, or an inactive Boy Scout, about your troop's activities. Invite him to a troop outing, activity, service project, or meeting. Tell him how to join, or encourage the inactive Boy Scout to become active.

 

11.

Describe the three things you should avoid doing related to use of the Internet. Describe a cyberbully and how you should respond to one.

 

11.

Demonstrate Scout spirit by living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in your everyday life. Discuss four specific examples (different from those used for Tenderfoot requirement 13 and Second Class requirement 11) of how you have lived the points of the Scout Law in your daily life.

 

13.

Participate in a Scoutmaster conference.

 

14.

Complete your board of review.

 

Looking at all of the above...especially numbers 1,3,4,7a, and 8, I can not possiblyb see how any scout would advance. You fdon't see or hear from him for 6 months? Can't imagine him doing #4e or 9c. 3 is trhe kicker, Participate in 10 events. No loophole there. There is no way he could cherry pick that either. A scout who does not talk to anybody for 6 months will not have the drive to 1 thing, much less more if he isn't active.

 

And that scout or his parents get upset, all you have to do is show the requirements for advancement.

 

Basically, National said: "Hey, make sure that the Scout really is inactive and not going througha slump,. brain freeze or something that is beyond his control. Give him 6 months and talk to him. If another 6 go by, they you had an entire year to determine he's not interested."

 

And you know, if after a year,he wants to come back, he has to re register and start all over again. It's not like CUB SCOUTING where his age/grade will dictate his rank. Nope! His rank all depends on him being active, And I mean active by realistic standards such as getting off his butt and truely participating!

 

It's simple: National didn't really give you a great final definition of active, but gave you a to precise, definant and well defined way to dump somebody who is not active!

[Beavah]

Yah, Scoutfish, we all have the books, eh? Yeh really don't need to copy pages and pages into each post .

 

Da issue comes up in Boy Scoutin' in the Star-Life-Eagle ranks, not so much in T-2-1. The emphasis on the upper ranks is in developing character through service to the troop and to others, while building skills through merit badges.

 

Problem is that active=registered and serve actively in a position of responsibility = don't get fired too often doesn't achieve our aims of teaching character through real service to the troop. A lot of the real magic of Boy Scouting on young men is when they're steppin' up and startin' to lead, and makin' sacrifices by choosing to do hard work for the troop rather than do something else.

 

What that program office in Irving is doing is undermining that, by making it officially OK for a lad to get our "upper" awards by doin' as little as possible and rackin' up MBs at the mill. It does happen. Not as much as some think, but not as infrequently as others think. Happens enough to diminish the value of Eagle Scout in the minds of quite a few kids and adults.

 

What really itches my shorts is that da program office is doin' it just because they're sick and tired of dealin' with the calls and threats of helicopter parents, eh? Yah, I agree, it's just drainin' to be dealin' with bad adult behavior by unit leaders and parents all the time, and there's some legal "case management" that's necessary. But I think folks in administrative service positions should have the backs of the volunteers. Or, if yeh can't take the heat, just eliminate the option of an appeal to National.

 

But if we aren't really committed to usin' advancement to teach character and values, let's just eliminate the thing. Nah, we get too much revenue from it .

 

Beavah