Once Again - Uniforms and BOR

[BadenP]

I agree with Frank and others, bylaws usually indicate control issues or lack of control within the unit. The BSA have enough rules to cover most situations without creating more and causing more confusion among your youth and the parents.

 

In my Venturing crew we do not use the forest green shirt, the youth have chosen an alternative uniform which is their option. I am the only adult leader with the complete green shirt and gray pants uniform which I wear for district and council events in which I am asked to help officiate, why because young scouts and parents will ask me about the uniform and the venturing program, and it puts me on par with my other scouters from cubs and boy scouts. I however do not expect the youth or other leaders in the crew to own or wear that uniform because it is not the crew's official uniform. As far as a BOR or EBOR is concerned the uniform is not the only or most important way they should measure a scouts readiness for advancement or his scout spirit.

[Brian85]

A uniform is a uniform. FULL, HALF, and COMPLETE are irrelevant when disussing this topic. I have worn a uniform for more than half of my life. Longer if I include wearing a School Uniform and Scout Uniform. The issue here is really about the conduct of a BoR and how the leadership runs that part of the program. I like the question posed about Scout Spirit and wearing the uniform. You put your best foot forward and make the best impression.

Instead of a uniform at the BoR, how about a copy of the last uniform inspection that was conducted be reviewed?

For all of the Uniform Police out there, I challenge you to find a 'minimum' passing score for a uniform inspection. The IG is clear, but the program is not. I would prefer a boy to be uniform, but I will take the boy. Even my leaders have 'problems' with uniform, but they know my stance. I have conducted many inspections and the best score I have ever given is a 90. I have never given someone a perfect score, because who always carries the registration card (-5). My wife won't let me carry my registration card.

Does anyone have any hard stats about uniforms and retention? I would like to see that and then we can roll out the plans for the sesquicentennial uniform!!! Does anyone really know any person who never owned a uniform and actually earned Eagle???

[83_Eagle_T148]

This is a sticky issue. Where to start is narrowing down the question. Are you asking about the requirement of class "A"uniforms for a board of review; what the BSA official uniform is; or advice on your unit's uniform policy?

 

I won't attempt to tackle this issue without it being more narrowly defined. What I will say is that the Senior Patrol Leader is the leader of the troop, and should set the example for all the other scouts. By the way, it is unquestionable that adult leaders, especially the Scout Master, and Eagle Scout himself, should be positive role models.

 

It seems to me that bringing this concern up, diplomatically, at the next troop committee meeting would be a good first step. If you're uncomfortable with this, talk to your Unit Commissioner first.

 

[HICO_Eagle]

My troop has lowered the expectation of what "Class A" meant to simply wearing a Class A shirt but we're starting to rejuvenate the past practice of "full uniform" means a full uniform (merit badge sash and OA sashes being optional accoutrements).

 

I don't think we'd cancel the BOR just because the Scout showed up in jeans instead of Scout pants but the board would probably say it reflected on his Scout spirit and readiness to pursue the next rank. He could have torn a seam on his Scout pants, spilled a drink or have another valid excuse.

 

On the other hand, this is the SPL. There's a big difference between a new Tenderfoot going for Second Class and the SPL trying to get Life. Presumably he's setting the example for the rest of the troop and you're saying he couldn't be bothered to wear the proper rank insignia or position patch? If I'd been the TCC, I'd have asked the SM why he thought the young man was demonstrating Scout spirit -- a good explanation would get a head nod and pass for the Scout, no explanation or a poor one would result in a reschedule and some discussion at committee.

[m-mckai1]

In our troop the boy scout uniform shirt is requeired for all board of review with sash and at meetings during the school year. During the summer bsa themed t shirt may be worn to meetings but class a for BOR. If they dont want to wear the uniform shirt then why are they in scouts. All boys know this when they join that they need a shirt with proper emblems on it. If money is a problem then the troop will help out.

[IM_Kathy]

I often get a laugh with some of the scouts in my son's troop... the troop isn't a strict uniform troop during the summer the can wear troop shirts, but rest of the time they do wear the uniform shirt. They don't stress uniform pants, but many do have them and wear them. They don't do inspections. But the boys doing flag ceremony must be in shirt and necker/bolo. For BOR the boys must be in shirt and necker/bolo even during the summer... that's where the laughs come - there's often a boy that has lost his necker running around asking to borrow one from another scout.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

OK,so in the newest Advancement Book, "Advancement and Recognition Policies and Procedures"

BSA Publication 33088, 2010 Printing, it says this on page 27 regarding Boards of Review and the uniform

 

"The Scout should be neat in his appearance; however, a uniform is not required. Local boards

of review may not make up their own rules about wearing a uniform."

 

I suppose this means all of the uniform police are out of a job, much like the East German Border Crossing Guards were jobless after the Berlin Wall fell.

 

I can only imagine that National got tired of appeals that were bsed soley on scouts either being denied Boards of Review (Eagle mostly) or being denied a rank because the scout was not in uniform.

 

Well, as Ed has often said, a uniform is not required and here is documented proof

[evmori]

Thanks OGE. That would make requiring a uniform at a BOR adding to the requirements!

 

Just to clarify a little. I love the uniform. Own a few and I do wear them. If I am sitting on a EBOR, I will be in uniform. I do think the uniform should be required to be a member.

[Eagle92]

WHOA!

[John-in-KC]

Be careful of what you ask for, you might just get it...

 

Lots of people asked for, nay, demanded guidance, about advancement. The National Council is obliging them.

 

As my sainted mom more than once said "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question..."

 

Ed...

As long as I've been on here, I've never doubted that you believe in the uniform ... but you were emphasizing the lack of existence of a requirement. Thanks for confirming that

[BrentAllen]

Interesting. So you have to wear the uniform to attend Jambo, but not to your EBOR. And the fall of the Eagle continues...

[evmori]

If I read OGE's post correctly, the uniform is not required for ANY BOR. And actually, it never has been!

[John-in-KC]

Brent,

 

What do you propose for a Venturer, where that's his primary registration, who earns Eagle, whose Crew does not have a Class A level uniform?

 

Jamboree is also an incredibly expensive experience.

[nolesrule]

The previous Advancement Policies book already had a "uniform is not required" paragraph in the EBOR section. What it did say was uniform or coat and tie, if I remember correctly.

 

"Neat in appearance" does leave a lot of wiggle room to set policy. It just can't force a uniform.

[BrentAllen]

John,

I would propose he wear a coat and tie. Is he ever going to wear the Eagle badge? If so, I would suggest he wear whatever he is going to wear the badge on.

 

Interesting that the new text doesn't address those who are in only a partial uniform. The Rules and Regs say no alteration or additions may be made. Uniform parts are not to be worn with civilian clothes. So, can an EBOR say either full complete uniform (as the Rules and Regs read), or no uniform at all? Can an Eagle Board refuse to meet with a Scout in his Scout shirt and blue jeans? The ARP&P that say a uniform isn't required and the R & R say you can't wear only a partial uniform. Do you enforce one, and not the other?