Attire at EBOR

[Beavah]

Yah, acco, I might not have been being as clear as I could, eh?

 

I don't have much of an issue with a unit wanting to teach proper dress and comportment as part of T-2-1 BORs and such within their unit. I think that sometimes gets a bit over-the-top, too, but it's the unit's call.

 

When we're talkin' EBORs, especially ones at da district level like what CNY describes, we're past the point of teachin' that simplistic stuff, eh? We're tryin' to teach and demonstrate other values. Courteous people don't comment on others' attire, and mentally awake people don't judge based on appearance. Besides, yeh run into too many differences-between-units issues anyways.

 

These days, da culture of businesses is just different, eh? Google isn't goin' to care as much how you're dressed, they're goin' to care what you are able to do. And a bright, high achieving lad is goin' to walk out of an interview where old fuddies got upset about his lack of a tie and take his talents down the street to a company that demonstrates better values. Unlike scoutin' advancement, it's more of a performance-based culture out here now. At least in the businesses that aren't goin' broke.

 

Beavah

 

[acco40]

Adolescents are more "appearance" conscience than any other segment of society in my judgment. They just don't gravitate toward an appearance that garners the most universal positive feedback.

 

And I beg to differ about Google. Take a look (in Ann Arbor for instance) about what they wear to work. I bet that if a potential candidate came to an interview is a starched white shirt, black shoes, tie, cuff links, etc. he would lessen his chances of hire due to his "non-creative" appearance.

 

I guess having two sons who have earned Eagle, I realize that what we teach them when in the earlier ranks still needs to be taught in the older ranks. My son wanted a SM conference once for silver eagle palms, at home and I agree and went to put on my uniform. He asked if he was "required" to and I just asked him what did he think - and he went an changed. Nothing "magical" happens when they earn eagle (although the BSA doesn't really want me to let that be known).

 

I think some have a predetermined conception of those who set the expectation for proper uniforming in the BSA as pejorative "uniform police" and "adding to the requirements" types - and yes some are, but I feel the vast majority are just folks who agree to deliver the Scouting program as intended by the BSA and don't feel the need to put our personal stamp on it.

 

Is it rude to point out to a Scout that he is wearing insignia incorrectly on his uniform? Is in rude to point out to a Scout that his first aid skills are incorrect? To both, it all depends on the manner in which it is done.

[evmori]

We can beat this up all we want.

 

I think what it comes down to is priorities. The BOR wants the Scout in full uniform or they won't even hold the BOR. That is flat out wrong and their priorities are in the wrong place.

 

A BOR isn't about what a Scout looks like. It's about who he is. He could look like a million bucks and be the biggest moron on the planet!

[Eagle92]

In reference to attire to EBOR members, is it reasonable for them to set the example by their expectations?

 

In reference to Eagle Candidates in a troop/team/ship, is it reasonable to expect them to be in uniform since the these units are part of a uniformed program?

 

In reference to Eagle Candidates in Venturing crews, is it reasonable to expect them to be in the crew's distinct identity uniform, even if that only means wearing a tie-dye t-shirt, crew's hooded sweatshirt, reenacting attire, etc?

[evmori]

Sure it's reasonable to expect what you posted, Eagle92, but to require it or deny a Scout advancement because of it is wrong.

[Eagle92]

So if it is reasonable to expect leaders and youth in a uniform at EBORs, then what should we do if they do not meet those expectations?

[evmori]

So if it is reasonable to expect leaders and youth in a uniform at EBORs, then what should we do if they do not meet those expectations?

 

Well, if the Scout isn't in uniform the EBOR can ask him why he isn't in uniform. And if the EBOR isn't in uniform the Scout should be able to ask them why they aren't in uniform.

[Eagle92]

Anyone else?

[CNYScouter]

 

In our district a youth goes in front of the Eagle board at least twice the first time for a project approval and again for their EBOR.

 

Below is an excerpt from our from our Districts Eagle to Life guide for the uniform expectation for ether time:

 

In as much as the Scouts Eagle Board of Review is likely the most important and formal occasion he has participated in up to this point in his Scouting career, his appearance and attire should reflect this. Arrive in a neat and clean Scout uniform, neckerchief, slide and merit badge sash (this is not an appropriate occasion to wear the OA sash). Make certain all uniform patches, insignia or medals are properly applied or displayed. The Life Scout rank should be on the uniform pocket. A badge of office displayed on the left sleeve, if any, must represent the position the Scout currently holds. The merit badge sash should properly display all of the merit badges the Scout has earned and should be worn over his right shoulder.

 

Examples of attire the Scout should avoid when appearing before the Eagle Board of

Review:

Jeans with holes in them

Cut-off jeans

Extraneous jewelry

I posted not to debate its contents but this for the part:

the Scouts Eagle Board of Review is likely the most important and formal occasion he has participated in up to this point in his Scouting career, his appearance and attire should reflect this.

 

The EBORs attire should reflex the most important and formal occasion that this represents especially when they have this written.

 

I think that if this had been only one member dressed this way I dont my son would have had an issue with this. But of the 5 members that he went in front of, 4 are retired and should have had no problem dressing for the occasion.

 

My son has had 3 EBOR members tell him (and its written in our guide) that he needed to have his reference letters in by his 18th birthday or no EBOR. One even said that they were had to be in the day before his birthday.

But the head of the board told him he wouldnt hold up an EBOR because a reference letter isnt in.

My son turned his Eagle Application in Nov. 10 and hasnt had his EBOR yet.

 

What kind of message is this sending?

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Not a great message, CNY, I agree.

 

I've worked in and with councils that do the EBOR thing both ways, eh? As district/council boards or as troop boards with a district rep. There are pluses and minuses to each, but I have to say that I prefer the troop level EBORs. It avoids a lot of da confusion that the districts generate and it makes things consistent for the lad comin' up for the BOR. He's not goin' to see something very different than he saw for his Life BOR, leastways not if the district rep. behaves properly .

 

Plus I think da folks who have worked with a lad for 3-7 years should be the ones who get to see the result, eh? EBORs are special things. In most cases, they're the reward for the efforts of those unit volunteers and members of da CO. And those folks deserve that reward of hearin' from a young man what their scouting program did for him.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

CNY,

I'd recommend your son start making phone calls NOW, especially if he is 18 as they have a limited window to have an EBOR without council or national OK. An excellent Scout of mine was turned away at his EBOR b/c it was past the point where they could hold it. He had to petition national for an exemption. I think he had a great reason for having it late: district couldn't send a rep for a EBOR prior to boot camp, so it was arranged after boot camp and MOS school. He got it.

[Knot Head]

>>>As a Scoutmaster I was continually frustrated that the same parents who steadfastly refused to wear a uniform - they were registered scouters - a redundant term mind you) complained that the boys were lax in uniforming. Go figure.

[CNYScouter]

My son was finally contacted by the head of our Eagle Board and has his EBOR on the 28th.

His spirit towards Scouting has really dropped since he started the whole Eagle process.

He got pretty frustrated having to contact 2 people at our church and going to 3 teachers to get them to send in a reference letter.

 

At this point I don't know if the 3rd teacher ended up sending in the reference letter or it's close to the 3 month mark.

[John-in-KC]

To me, it's fully reasonable to expect an adult sitting an EBOR to be clothed as he would go to church, if th event is indoors. If the event is outdoors in frontcountry, to me it's reasonable the EBOR member be in fresh clothing as though he's going into frontcountry. If the even is at a worksite or in backcountry, then the EBOR member has a lot of latitude ... as should the boy.

 

When I'm interviewing a candidate for employment, I'm expected to be in appropriate business attire. Same concept.

 

I will defer discussion on what the young man should wear to other threads. That horse is DEAD.

 

My thoughts.

[lrsap]

"He got pretty frustrated having to contact 2 people at our church and going to 3 teachers to get them to send in a reference letter."

 

Forgive the novice in me (my den crosses over in 6 weeks), but didn't I see a post from a few months ago that said a scout didn't have to go chasing around for his letters of reference?

 

(If I need to spin this one off to a new thread please let me know)