Attire at EBOR

[NJCubScouter]

In our district the custom seems to be for the EBOR members not to wear the uniform. The EBOR's and meetings with the District Advancement Committee to get project approval and a post-project review are all held at the same time and in the same place in our district, so during my son's journey through the process I got to "be around" a number of EBOR's. All of the members were in either professional or neat/casual attire, which seemed appropriate. (I think ratty jeans would get looks of disapproval from the other board members, never mind the Scout.) The Scoutmaster, if he is there to "introduce" the Scout, is in uniform, and the Eagle candidate must be also (sorry Ed) but about half the boys I saw did not have sashes, to no apparent detriment to their progress. But not the BOR members. In fact, for my son's BOR, one of the members is a committee member in our troop who I don't think I have ever seen in civvies before. During committee meetings in our troop uniforms are not worn either, even by those of us who normally wear uniforms at troop meetings, and I guess the idea is that at an EBOR member, you dress as if you were at a troop committee meeting. But this custom seems to be the case throughout our district, not just our troop.

[Scoutfish]

acco40, You are correct in noting that this is for project approval. I didindeed miss that fact.

 

BUT....

 

"Any Scout that goes in front of the Eagle Board is required to be in full uniform including the MB sash.

The EBOR will not meet with them if they are not."

 

In still beleive that if the EBOR requires a scout to be in ful uniform ..EVEN FOR PROJECT APPROVAL..... the EBOR should follow suit.

 

Now, I think simply approving a project isn't that formal and there is no need for the EBOR to be in full dress, but likewise, if it's not that formal, the scout should not be REQUIRED either.

 

Again, I stand behind "What is good for the goose is goo for the gander!"

 

Other wise, the message is " Although I demand your respect, you are not worthy of mine in return."

 

 

And I may be wrong, but is that the message that BSA is trying to send?

[Scoutfish]

NJCub; At our leader and committee meetings, we just wear whatever too. Jeans, pants, t shirts, sweats,.

 

No kids, no leassons, just buisness stuff. We all work to gether for the same goal , so there's no point in trying to impress anybody else.

[sherminator505]

"Let's not forget, there is no requirement for the Eagle candidate or any other person involved in an EBOR to wear the uniform. Requiring one is adding to the requirements."

 

It seems that we've beat this one to death in previous threads. but I have a slightly different question. What is wrong with the EXPECTATION that a Scout (or Scouter) who is known to own a uniform should wear it, properly, to a BOR? It seems to me to be no different than the EXPECTATION that a job applicant show up to an interview dressed professionally.

[BDPT00]

OGE: "It's almost as if you guys have actual expectations concerning a volunteers behavior and that is just not right."

 

I sure have expectations concerning a volunteers behavior. Lots of them. Do we want alcohol on their breath? Do we condone foul language and inapproprite subject matter? Ethnic comments? Blond jokes? Put-downs?

I think we should have plenty of expectations. In this case, it sounds like some expect uniforms. I get that, but it is right to consider that other districts may be different than your own, however, if the Scout is asking the question, I think it's a good one. I would wear a uniform. I can't control everyone else, but if I were in charge of the BOR, I would share an expectation for dress.

BDPT00

[Eagle92]

Missed the approval part. If a uniform was required for approval back in my day I know of at least one freidn who'd be out a luck. He was meeting the district rep on his way to work as a lifeguard. and District rep was in the yard cutting grass.

 

As for expectations, I sure hope that someone who has spent a minimum of 18 months, or however long it is now, in the BSA and going for his Eagle would have a complete uniform, or at the very least an attmpt at a complete uniform. Then again I've seen photos on BSA's FB pages that have ECOHs with the Eagle in jeans. Ah carumba.

[DeanRx]

ECOH in jeans .... egads !!! say it ain't so...

 

What if the lad is from a single parent family, no parental involvement, only has a shirt because it was a hand-me-down, but has been active in the Troop and met all the requirements?

 

"No son, you need to do an Eagle Project AND save up enough money to bow at the alter of the Scout Shop cash register before we can feel good about bestowing the lofty rank of Eagle upon you. Go forth and fill the BSA coffers so that you might look the part of an Eagle."

 

As a father that has the means to buy every scout shirt and doo-dad my cub wants, but as a scout had only one 'new' shirt my scout career, never had pants and had a hand me down sash and cap - comments about a scout being in the 'correct' pants vs blue-jeans seem to really rub me the wrong way. If we concentrate more on what we put INTO the scout than whats ON the scout, everyone will be better off.

[evmori]

It seems that we've beat this one to death in previous threads. but I have a slightly different question. What is wrong with the EXPECTATION that a Scout (or Scouter) who is known to own a uniform should wear it, properly, to a BOR? It seems to me to be no different than the EXPECTATION that a job applicant show up to an interview dressed professionally.

 

We do tend to beat this one to death but to refuse to hold any BOR because the Scout doesn't show up in uniform is just wrong. I agree he should wear his uniform if possible but what if shows up in a suit & tie? Of even nice casual clothes?

 

Until the uniform is required by the BSA, send a Scout packing from a BOR because he didn't show up in his uniform is adding to the requirements and wrong.

[Eagle92]

Dean,

Where there is a will, there is a way I was one of those single parent Scouts. And while I didn't have the official BSA pants for some time, I did have the imitation surplus ones. Couldn't tell they weren't official within 5 feet of me.

 

Thrift stores were a great place to find uniforms, IF you could find your size. Shirts were no problem, heck I would buy shirts for the patches and then sell them to guys in the troop for cost. i eventually did get BSA pants, btu it was challenging.

[Knot Head]

I don't sit on EBORs but I'd be in uniform if I did unless I came straight from work in a suit & tie. That's just the way I roll.

 

I tell the adults in our troop why should we expect the boys to be in uniform if we are not?

 

This ia a great "teachable moment" for your son.

[Scoutfish]

The way I see it, the issue isn't actually wether anybody wore a 3 piece suit or showed up naked. The issue is showing mutal respect.

Now, if the scout just happened to stop by a EROB member's house unannounced, then the scout should most certainly deal with a manin jeans, yard clothes or even swim wear. No biggie except the scout showing up un announced.

But, to know you are going to have a meeting, for whatever reason, and to REQUIRE the scout to dress full class A, then it should be returned likewise.

These guys knew about the meeting before hand right? Then either buisness suit and tie or uniform is the rule.

OR..They can relax on their expectations of the scout who might just have come from his afterschool part time job or whatnot.

 

In the end, it comes down to giving respect as well as recieving it!

 

 

If you cannot give it, you don't deserve to receive it!

[Beavah]

As for expectations, I sure hope that someone who has spent a minimum of 18 months, or however long it is now, in the BSA and going for his Eagle would have a complete uniform, or at the very least an attmpt at a complete uniform.

 

Yah, we can't forget about da Venturers, eh?

 

It's entirely possible that an Eagle candidate last wore khaki over olive four years ago when he transferred from a troop into a crew as a First Class Scout. Since uniforming isn't a method in Venturing, it may be that he owns green-over-charcoal, it may be that he owns a uniform his crew selected (might well be a T-shirt), or nuthin' much, eh?

 

So it just gets a bit silly when da adults get all in a knot over what da lad is wearing. In some ways, if they won't let him in without his ODLRs he should just hand 'em transfer paperwork to a local crew and proceed to the EBOR in his civvies. Or in da crew's tie-died T-shirt.

 

EBORs should focus on the boy, not the pants. To my mind, we're bein' lousy examples to the lads when we get all hyper about this stuff. Teaches 'em that those in charge should behave like officious bureaucrats, rather than like humble servant-leaders.

 

So to my mind, an ideal EBOR member will dress in full uniform or professional civvies, and then demonstrate to the lad the values and character that such dress should embody.

 

Beavah

 

[acco40]

Scouting is an environment where we allow the Scouts to "fail" with very little consequences. If my college sophomore son shows up to a job interview non-clean shaven, heavy metal t-shirt, etc. the interviewer will probably not focus on his Eagle scout award, community service, respectful attitude, excellent leadership skills and may not give him the time of day. Is that fair? Doesn't matter.

 

In Scouts, we've had boys show up without their neckerchief, no scout socks, no scout pants, etc. and the chair of the board - for even Tenderfoot - has asked the Scout to reschedule because they are not properly uniformed (they know the families well enough to know it is not due to finances). What are the consequences? The scout may get his BOR 30 minutes later if he decides to go home and put on his uniform, he may decide to reschedule to a different day delaying his "gratification", his parent may be appreciative to the board for helping to teach their son a life lesson with very little real consequences, his parents may be furious for the board adding "an additional requirement" and thus singling out their son (a life lesson for the parent?), he may get discouraged and quit, or he may learn that hey, how I present myself leaves a lasting impression of folks.

 

Personally, I think way to many of our youth keep the two and three year old attitude that they are the center of the universe and setting expectations for them is a good thing.

 

And by the way, don't you guys recognize sarcasm when you see it? It's almost as if you guys have actual expectations concerning a volunteers behavior and that is just not right . - OGE

 

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Scoutfish]

acco, I totally and completely agree wit what you are saying about a scout getting a taste of the real world.

I actually think all scouts should be proud of their uniform to the point that it should not even HAVE TO be a requirement that you wera it. I'd like it to be that scouts would WANT to wear it every chance they get,

But that is not my focus here.

It is just mt beliefe that if we expect the scout to hold a certain amount of respect for any proces or function, we ..especially as leaders.... should show that same respect too.

 

When that scout puts on his uniform for an EBOR ( wether he just wants to, or is required) and he shows up to a bunch of leaders, adults and "supposedly" respectable board members who are wearing a bunchof ragged torn up clothes 0 trhe message is clear: "We demand you show us respect, but we decided you are not worthy of it in return!"

 

Then almost every core value as a scout, every oath, promise and motto just became null and void.

 

In short, the message says that rules of respect do not apply to anybody that is an adult. And when those scouts become adults, they may follow suit!

[acco40]

No argument here. Now start a new thread and ask if committee members should wear their uniforms when holding a meeting with no youths present. I say yes, but the vast majority, my guesss, is no. I think the Scouts pick up on this. Just like the habit I've seen in many troops that have the expectation that the youth wear neckerchiefs but not the adult leaders.

 

As a Scoutmaster I was continually frustrated that the same parents who steadfastly refused to wear a uniform - they were registered scouters - a redundant term mind you) complained that the boys were lax in uniforming. Go figure.(This message has been edited by acco40)