FCFY - is it really possible?

[Beavah]

Annual planning should provide the opportunity for boys to obtain 1st Class in their first year. For an active scout who attend 8 - 10 outings and has a desire to accomplish this - it should be a piece of cake.

 

I've heard this claim a lot. I remember BobWhite makin' it, and when I challenged him to come up with such a plan we got copies of a T-2-1 detailed school curriculum that some Chicago-area teacher had done, and four-hour long troop meetings tryin' to cover a half a dozen different topics.

 

If what we're talkin' about is makin' a scout ready for bigger adventures (what NealonWheels mentioned), or makin' him self-sufficient as an outdoorsman (da traditional view of First Class), or a lad demonstrating proficiency in outdoor skills (the BSA Rules & Regulations standard), I don't think it's possible for most boys in most troops to do in a year. Yah, yah, there are always the exceptional boys who have been campin' with their family for years, and exceptional troops that run three outings a month and 3 week-long trips a year. But for most kids? I don't buy it. And I've seen an awful lot of troops, eh?

 

How long do we think it takes for a boy with no knowledge to learn to recognize and respond to heat exhaustion and dehydration, and distinguish it from heat stroke? Apparently a lot longer than we've planned in our FCFY curricula, given what happened at the last Jambo.

 

How many tries do we think it really takes for a lad to learn how to make batter and cook good pancakes in the field? I'm willing to bet we'd all agree the number is a lot more than one. But if a boy is in an 8-person patrol and attends 8 campouts in da year as acco suggests above, then he gets one try, eh? And that's just to do part of the second class requirement. Haven't even gotten to da first class cooking requirements.

 

So since I've never really seen an ordinary troop succeed with FCFY, I'd love to see a few troop annual plans which really do what acco suggests above. I reckon a lot of folks would learn from 'em, and it would make for a good discussion. So if yeh think your troop has this down to a "piece of cake", here's your chance to help all da rest of us out. Please share!

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

Back in the day, when there were time requirements for every rank and First Aid MB was required for First Class rank, it was very doable IF you were active. I joined my first troop in May, missed out on summer camp, and transferred to old troop in December. So between May and November I got as far as Second Class, if memory serves. It took me until July to get First Class b/c of the First Aid MB requirements,and it was strongly suggested I take this at summer cmap b/c of the quality of the instructor. Still remember him, what he taught, and how he taught it: stuff we can use on a backpacking trip.

 

Both troops were active, but it was up to the scout to get the signatures, SMC and BOR. PLs worked with the scouts when asked to by the scout. All responsibility was on the scout however.

 

Now the time requirements are gone for T-2-1, and most camps have an all day first year camper program that teaches these skills. Soem ar excellent, some need help. But I do know of Scouts who had joined in May, go on camp out in june, go to summer camp in july, and get three BORs in one nite ( I know that it isn't nec., but this was when the time requirements were first gone and no one knew how to deal with a scout going from Scout to First Class in one nite. So 3 BORs were held)

 

One thing that kept those skills honed was that we were a youth led troop,and you had to knwo your stuff to teach. Gran you all of us had our "specialty" scout skills that we knew better than anyone else and usually taught, But once you were FC, you were expected to be abel to teach t-2-1 skills at any moment if asked. So our guys who did get FC within a year were teachingthose skills back to the new guys.

[nolesrule]

Under the same advancement system as Eagle92 (Skill Awards, time requirements, First Aid MB), it took me just under a year (I don't have the exact dates, so somewhere in the 50 week range) to accomplish it. Of all the scouts that crossed over with me from our pack (about 7 or 8), only 2 of us were presented the "First Class in a year" certificate.

 

Looking over the current requirements, I don't see why it couldn't be done in a year unless a) the scout lacks in motivation or participation, or b) the unit isn't providing the outings or settings that would enable the Scouts to complete the requirements. No classroom scouts needed.

 

I think the goal is to provide scouts with the opportunity within the first year, not to ram them through the advancement process.

[SR540Beaver]

Hmmmm? We usually bring an average of 20 new boys into our program each year and we utilize NSP's. We have from 3 to 4 TG's and 3 ASM's. Our responsibility is the new scout program. FCFY is more of a working concept than a by the book approach for us. We aren't hell bent for leather to get all those boys to 1st Class in a year. We are determined to provide a program that makes it close to possible if they will attend and participate regularly. We 3 ASM's work with the TG's to determine what we want to do and where we want to go program wise and they in turn take it to the PLC. When it comes to teaching skills, the TG's are up front and we ASM's sit in the back. As the "season" progresses and the NSP becomes more profecient in their skills, the TG's step back more and more. WE are basically using the EDGE approach. We don't sign off because they sit thru a TG presentation on a skill. If it says show, they have to show. If it says explain, they have to explain. If it says do, they have to do. It has to be to our satisfaction. Nowhere do I see where it says that the if the boy shows you once, you deny him and make him show you 5 or 6 times over the next half year before you decide he has absorbed it for a lifetime. Our NSP usually runs from roughly February to November with the boys moving into regular patrols. On rare occasion, we've had boys make 1st Class in 8 months and others take 2 years.

 

Edited in response to nolsrule, exactly! While the whole troop goes on monthly outings and often the new scout patrol and regular patrol programs are the same, we do design elements of the outing specifically for the new scouts. The other patrols might be fishing and the new scouts are doing their 5 mile hike or working on identifying 10 types of native plants. We take advantage of whatever the monthly outing presents in the way of location to provide opportunities to fulfill rank requirements in the trail to 1st class. It is up to the boy to come and participate and master the requirement. But he isn't left lacking for the opportunity during his first year.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

[Mafaking]

 

i/[if what we're talkin' about is makin' a scout ready for bigger adventures (what NealonWheels mentioned), or makin' him self-sufficient as an outdoorsman (da traditional view of First Class), or a lad demonstrating proficiency in outdoor skills (the BSA Rules & Regulations standard), I don't think it's possible for most boys in most troops to do in a year.]/i

 

Agreed!

More like two plus years

 

i/[How long do we think it takes for a boy with no knowledge to learn to recognize and respond to heat exhaustion and dehydration, and distinguish it from heat stroke? ]/i

 

 

About an hour of good instruction. On this one, its the quality of the instruction not the number of times. I have never seen a person go into heat stroke. Heat exhaustion, a couple of times including once once myself.

 

i/[How many tries do we think it really takes for a lad to learnhow to make batter and cook good pancakes in the field?]/i

 

about 5-8 times.

 

FCFY is very possible with a summer camp program knocking off 1/2 of the requirements. Its speed camping at its best. A resort stay in a planned community, along side a lake with prepared meals and organized activities. Can it get any easier?

 

But Johny's knots are not so good, and his cooking skills are next to nothing. Most new cross overs have trouble lighting a match and/or a lighter let alone making a proper cooking fire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eaglescout1996]

I became a scout during the transition (1989), including skill awards, I believe the time requirements were 2 months for tenderfoot, 3 months 2nd class, and 4 months for 1st class. If I remember correctly, I did tenderfoot and 2nd class under the old requirements and 1st class with the new ones...and even with the confussion with the change (we had the old books and "temporary" pamphlets with the requirements in them), I completed 1st class in 12 months.

 

Granted, back then I was living on a miltary base overseas and didn't have the distractions kids have now of days...but looking at the current requirements, I don't see why it can't be accomplished.

[Horizon]

I posted this in the other thread. We don't have a FCFY "plan" or curriculum, but we do accomplish it for those Scouts who choose to make Scouting a priority.

 

A Game with a Purpose (as I am regularly reminded here).

 

The PLC and Troop Leadership of our Troop puts all of the opportunities out there for an involved Scout to easily learn and demonstrate the skills necessary to earn First Class in the First Year.

 

During the first meeting the Scout attends, his Patrol Leader usually gets him to do his initial physical fitness test. We have two nurses and one physician who regularly counsel First Aid Merit Badge, plus we have an adult who teaches CPR courses. First Aid MB is always available, and a few times a year the boys show up to the Troop meeting to find a group of people in need of "aid." They go from station to station demonstrating that they know how to deal with each person's issues and symptoms.

 

We have regular iron chef competitions on campouts, and Patrol Leaders check their members books before every campout to make sure that their Scouts have the opportunity to serve as Grubmaster and Chef.

 

We have a 5 mile hike on almost every campout, and the SPL keeps copies of topo maps with him for the map and compass portion. We have two Eagles that will set up a full compass course at the drop of a hat.

 

Poles and ropes are standard equipment for our car camping runs, so that camp gadgets can be built.

 

One of my Scouts is running a Swim Day for members of his Patrol to finish the swimming portions of the Trail to First Class.

 

ALL of this combines into multiple opportunities for Scouts to learn and later demonstrate that they have mastered the skills necessary to earn the rank of First Class.

 

With the buy in of the PLC, and the provision of opportunities, Scouts can earn their way if they so choose.

 

The last step is during my SMCs. At each rank, I talk to the Scout about what is now expected of him as he earns the next rank. Any Scout who is First Class is expected to know what to do - and is treated that way. Young boys are capable of much more than we give them credit.

[Horizon]

One addendum:

 

The biggest hurdle we have is the cooking fire. Here in Southern California, campfires are not allowed during much of the year, and not at all at a lot of the campsites. We have to consciously choose sites to provide the opportunity for a boy to learn to make and use a cooking fire. With that, we still have to bring firewood, as the collection of fuel from the forest is not typically allowed.

[Mike F]

Horizon - wow - impressive! The troop I serve doesn't have it quite that together, but you give me some great ideas.

 

We're a little more laid back and most of the T21 stuff is done within patrols, with assistance from Instructors setting up learning opportunities at meetings and campouts. Some of the guys are eager to start tearing into the requirements and some are content to enjoy camping and doing stuff without seeking advancement. (My own son took over a year to complete Tenderfoot.) We don't line them up and say it's time to learn knife/ax/saw sharpening. We set up the sharpening area and offer the opportunity. If they'd rather spend the free time fishing, it's up to them.

 

This is distressing to some new parents who are used to scheduled advancements in Cubs, but allows the boys to work at their own pace. Our retention is excellent and they all eventually decide to kick it into gear, so it works for us.

[eghiglie]

From what I see its a myth to do it in 12 months or less. 18 to 20 months seems to be the norm

 

I had one boy who did it in six months, he was 12 when he joined and hunts and camps with his dad a lot. He already knew cooking and first aid, he learned the knots and lashing real quick. From the first camp out he can always repack his tent into that tiny bag the fastest. When he was patrol cook his menu had the fastest meals and he used the least amount of gear that needed to be clean. Literally one pot and one spoon. He even taught the adults a few things.

 

Right now he is Life scout and working the badges.

 

 

[BadenP]

Is FCFY possible, yes, just like a 13 year old Eagle scout but what I have to ask is what is the quality of their training and how much did they even retain. You know this quantity over quality idea and moving at a quick pace in advancement that seems to be taking over the BSA probably, IMHO, is one of the main reasons we are losing so many boy scouts each year. No two boys learn the same way or at the same speed but the FCFY mentality is to produce assembly line cookie cutter first class scouts. What happened to the pride of earning each rank by developing each skill needed for that rank. Why is there a need to take the first three ranks of boy scouts and homogenize them into a one year crash course, what purpose does it really serve?

 

The purpose of scouting is NOT to provide a easy speedy race to Eagle, remember the other methods of which rank advancement is only a part.

[OldGreyEagle]

I always thought First Class First Year was more about a Troop's committment to have a program designed so that if a scout was active, and wanted to earn first class in a year, he could do so.

 

There is nothing about first class first year that says a scout doesn't have to have knot tieing or cooking skills. If a unit rushes a scout through the requirements and does not allow the scout to learn and retain and use those skills, I am not sure the BSA could be held responsible. If a scout doesn't know his knots, then he doesnt know them and he needs to learn them and nothing in First Class First year says he should ge them signed off, or any other requirement

 

First Class First year is about the unit's Program, not about a unit loosley signing off requirements.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm....

 

I guess I was hopin' for more specifics, like Horizon's or a bit more. Talkin' unit program, as OGE says.

 

Let's take da cooking bit. You've got around 8 boys in a patrol, you run maybe 10 weekend outings a year. Each boy has to plan and serve as his patrol's cook for a full campout, AND each boy has to plan and cook a breakfast or lunch in addition. Seems like that takes 16 campouts, assumin' the attendance works out perfectly.

 

Or let's take first aid. There are 36 first aid skills which each boy must learn and then demonstrate individually. Most troops run about that many meetings a year. So that means teachin' an average of one thing per meeting, and assuming 100% attendance. But after yeh explain/demonstrate, then the lad needs to practice and get coached and be "enabled", right? When does that happen? Then after that, each boy needs to individually demonstrate/be tested on each skill. Let's say yeh have 8 boys, and it takes about 5-10 minutes for a boy to demonstrate da skill. Yah, sure, some are faster, but most good treatment and bandaging, especially splinting, is gonna take longer. So that's an additional 40-80 minutes per week.

 

Assuming that every boy learns everything perfectly da first time.

 

So I just don't get it. Help me out, here, because I can honestly say I've never seen it work for an average troop and an average 6th grade boy. Leastways, not without a lot of fudging or school-stuff. Specifically, how do yeh handle these two areas as an example?

 

And that's before we even get into pullups or swimming .

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[BadenP]

OGE

The problem with your scenario is that too many kids get signed off in FCFY that really have not learned the skills adequately, it is not about long term retention as it is to make sure each scout throughly understands and can perform that skill. The FCFY program can do that with some scouts but not all of them. If the troop is using it as their ONLY standard mode of training some to many of the boys will not be able to keep pace with the others, will become frustrated and will leave. IMHO, FCFY has its place but can NOT be the only method used for rank advancement in a troop. You have to ask yourself is my troop a group of teenage individual personalities with individual needs or are they a bunch of assembly line automtons who think, act and learn exactly the same.

[nolesrule]

"Let's take da cooking bit. You've got around 8 boys in a patrol, you run maybe 10 weekend outings a year. Each boy has to plan and serve as his patrol's cook for a full campout, AND each boy has to plan and cook a breakfast or lunch in addition. Seems like that takes 16 campouts, assumin' the attendance works out perfectly. "

 

The Second Class cooking requirement can be done on a campout concurrently with someone else serving as patrol cook for the First Class requirement, as the 2nd Class requirement only requires you cook one breakfast/lunch for yourself with 2 (maybe 3) cooking opportunities per campout. So the 2nd class requirement could be knocked out for a patrol of 8 in 4 campouts at most (and could even be reasonably done in 2) while the 1st class patrol cook requirement would need 8 campouts.