Can Eagle be taken away?

[NealOnWheels]

A couple posts in a couple threads recently claimed that the Eagle rank can be taken away. Is this urban legend or fact?

 

I was a member of a Eagle Board of Review once where a fellow member said exactly that to the candidate making the point that an Eagle Scout is obligated to live up to the honor.

 

One post says "There was one at Camp Shands over the summer that got his Eagle revoked."

 

Another says "Rank can be "taken back" - ask a few "former" Eagles who've had their rank removed."

 

I don't know anyone who has so I can't ask.

 

Has anyone really recieved their Eagle Certificate and then later recieved a letter from national saying their Eagle has been revoked?

[John-in-KC]

I've known membership in the BSA to be revoked on an Eagle Scout, but I've never heard of the National Council withdrawing the award of an Eagle.

 

If someone has a date and a name that can be washed though Irving (or has been washed through Irving), I'd love to hear it.

[packsaddle]

No.

Edit: I better clarify. My answer is to the title question, not the last one in the original post.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[emb021]

AFAIK, its one of those 'scouting rumors'. I heard claims of this person or that person having it taken away, but AFAIK, its never happened.

 

 

[dg98adams]

I did find this (2006) on revoking the Eagle rank reported by Mike Walton.... I do not know know the man but from what I have read on him for years he sounds credible.

 

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977728933

 

from Mike's article:

 

"I can't only to say that the BSA's decisions over the years have to deal with murder, multiple rapes, child abuse on a grand scale, larceny, and similar type crimes. As I stated, the 37 members of the BSA's National Executive Board -- four of whom are professional Scouters; the rest are corporate presidents, leaders of national social, religious and educational bodies; and two retired military officers; I believe that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is still a member of the BSA's National Executive Board (not sure about that; I know as the former CIA director, he was a member of the National Executive Board) -- make the decisions about retention or revocation of the Eagle and/or other national awards (Silver Buffalo, Beaver, Antelope, World).

 

There's no guidelines on what will "revoke your Eagle" -- not on paper, anyways."

 

[packsaddle]

OK, there are a couple of ways to look at this.

One way is that Eagle is a recognition by the organization - as well as by society - of the achievement, culminating in a badge and a certificate. I doubt that anyone can take the badge and certificate away but it is certainly within the rights of the organization or any individual to remove their recognition if that's what they decide to do - an 'excommunication' of sorts, I suppose.

 

Another way to look at this is that aside from the material things associated with Eagle, this rank is a state of being. It is an affirmation by the individual of a covenant with the rest of the world that he will do his best to live up to the spirit of scouting as he understands it. The certificate is a token that other people have faith that he understands these things and can live up to them. In this sense, the ONLY person who can take Eagle away is the person who has been awarded the recognition. THAT person can, by breaking this covenant, choose to 'turn his back' on what he originally was. I suspect this has happened many times by men who became criminals or something similar. But in this view, an Eagle will always know that he is an Eagle - or he will know that he is not. What BSA does is superficial in comparison.

 

edited for typos(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[sherminator505]

My understanding is that the BSA reserves the right to take such action, but I am not aware of a single documented case where that right has been exercised.

[NealOnWheels]

Mike Watson's article claims something like 9 to 11 individuals have had their Eagle revoked. He does not have first hand knowledge though. He is only repeating what he has heard. He does not give specific instances and there is no way to follow up on his claims.

[John-in-KC]

Neal,

 

In that case place me in the category of "Doubting Thomas."

 

I know an Eagle whose membership has been revoked. Even so, his I Love Me wall has his medal and certificate.

[epalmer84]

I'm sure if Charles Whitman's Eagle Scout had been revoked, it would have been news. Ditto for John Edward Robinson, Arthur Gary Bishop, Mark William Hofman or Russell Henderson. Especially for Governor Mark Sanford or Fred Phelps.

 

Ed Palmer

[shortridge]

Going a bit off-topic, for which I apologize ...

 

"Another way to look at this is that aside from the material things associated with Eagle, this rank is a state of being. It is an affirmation by the individual of a covenant with the rest of the world that he will do his best to live up to the spirit of scouting as he understands it."

 

Wow. That's awfully high-falutin' for me. Not sure I swallow it.

 

What is there in the Eagle rank requirements, process or literature that portrays things in this light?

 

And what makes Eagle different from Life? Really, functionally, practically - besides some more merit badges, a bit more time in office, a service project and a higher-level BOR?

 

And why is Life not a "state of being," but Eagle is?

[packsaddle]

All of them are states of being because scout spirit is not confined to just one rank or status. It just is. Or not. There is nothing in that post that suggests otherwise.

There is no written requirement for any of what I wrote other than the scout spirit component to the advancement requirements. The other written requirements are a set of skills and tasks that BSA National feels are appropriate to qualify for their recognition. The spirit is what the boy feels and he is its sole author and owner. We can only describe and demonstrate scout spirit. No one else can bestow it on him or take it away. Only he can do that.

Of course this is just my view. There's no way to codify this. If I'm wrong please explain.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[shortridge]

OK, I see where you're coming from now. Thanks.

 

I just get a little hinky whenever anyone starts talking about the "Eagle spirit" or "once an Eagle, always an Eagle" - implying that there's something almost mystical about earning the Eagle rank that separates Eagles from everyone else. There's clearly not.

 

It goes back to "Scout spirit," as you said. And I much prefer the phrase "once a Scout, always a Scout."

[Narraticong]

Shortridge-

 

I agree that one does not need to be an Eagle, or even a Scout, to possess the same qualities that we traditionally expect to see in an Eagle Scout. And there obviously are no special BSA regulations on how an Eagle should act. But back to "tradition".

 

Within and outside of Scouting, people have a higher expectation of Eagle Scouts. Across the past 100 years, Eagles have shown themselves, as a group, to be leaders and model citizens. In other words, they are an example of the ideals of Scouting. They are looked up to by other Scouts and by the community as a whole.

 

I think Packsaddles statements are right on target. I am guessing he is either an Eagle himself or has been close to more than one in his Scouting career.

 

Ken

[packsaddle]

Yes, I'm an Eagle, 1964. I sympathize with Shortridge's 'hinkiness' because I also feel uncomfortable with statements that imply group characteristics. To me every scout is an individual and must live up to his individual goals and expectations. And we can influence those through our actions and our own personal examples.