Arrow of Light at 9 years old

[Eagle92]

Scoutnet will not allow it to be put into the system as the age requirement hasn't been met yet. I say relax and have fun since the work is done. Make sure you go shopping for a troop so that as soon as you can join a troop, at age 10.5 AND having earned the AOL, you are ready to go with them to summer camp. START SAVING MONEY NOW!

[John-in-KC]

If we are talking a true gifted/talented child, then one option set is to leverage the program:

 

a) Use CS Sports and Academics (not belt loops, PINS!) to keep him engaged.

 

b) Have him earn the 2d level religious emblem for his faith.

 

Another option set is for Mr Cubmaster to have a friendly cup of coffee with his Unit Commissioner and the District Advancement Chairman: While ACP&P does not cover the situation of an accelerated child, maybe it's worth asking questions up the line.

 

One thing I've noticed: Intellectual maturation doesn't always match emotional maturation. What really is best for the child? If it were my own EagleSon, I'd probably be encouraging him to look at all the branches on the trail.

 

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ETA: Ed, we in the trenches of Unit, as well as up the line of District, Council and Region do not have authority, but the National Advancement Committee is formed of men and women...not gods (little g) . They can make exceptions if they choose to, given the right information passed to them. I'm not the one to say this Cub is at the 4th standard deviation on the curve; that's for folks who can meet him flesh and blood.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[evmori]

Maybe National does have the authority to make exception, but I don't think "My kid's really smart" qualifies as an exception.

[resqman]

I agree with the maturity issue for Boy Scouts. Cub Scout camping and Boy Scout camping are different. Parents and lots of other support systems are in place in Cub scouts to ensure the boys can have an opportunity to fail and still enjoy the outing.

 

In Boy Scouts, generally the parents are not on the campout and the boy has to make due with what he has and rely on his patrol mates. They have the opportunity to fail but the consequences are usually harsher.

 

We had 2 new scouts join the troop before summer camp and attend. Did not know any of the scouts or leaders and did really well. We also had several scouts who had been camped with the troop three times before summer camp who explained they did not feel comfortable being away from their family for more than 3 days.

 

While the boy may feel he is ready to move on, I would have some serious talks with the prospective troops to see if they want the burden of having a 10 yr old in the program. The leaders are volunteers and may not want to adjust the troops program so the 10 yr old can participate.

[resqman]

I agree with the maturity issue for Boy Scouts. Cub Scout camping and Boy Scout camping are different. Parents and lots of other support systems are in place in Cub scouts to ensure the boys can have an opportunity to fail and still enjoy the outing.

 

In Boy Scouts, generally the parents are not on the campout and the boy has to make due with what he has and rely on his patrol mates. They have the opportunity to fail but the consequences are usually harsher.

 

We had 2 new scouts join the troop before summer camp and attend. Did not know any of the scouts or leaders and did really well. We also had several scouts who had been camped with the troop three times before summer camp who explained they did not feel comfortable being away from their family for more than 3 days.

 

While the boy may feel he is ready to move on, I would have some serious talks with the prospective troops to see if they want the burden of having a 10 yr old in the program. The leaders are volunteers and may not want to adjust the troops program so the 10 yr old can participate.

[Lisabob]

Having a 10 year old with AOL join a troop is permissible. Having a 9 year old in a troop is not, regardless of grade or AoL status. Those are BSA rules. Can they be bent? Maybe, maybe not, but they are the rules we have to work with.

 

Now, do they make sense? Yes, in most cases.

 

Reality is that boy scouting is quite different from cub scouting. THe boys are expected to be far more independent and frankly, a good bit tougher, than the typical cub. There is a lot of emphasis on teamwork (among the boys - not with adults hovering over them) in their patrols too, and already the youngest guys in most troops I've seen struggle with that. The age range is already very wide (10-18). To make a comparison, how would you feel about your son suddenly skipping from 4th grade over to the high school? Academics aside, do you think he's really ready for that?

 

And there is a burden placed on the youth leaders of the troop to help, mentor, and shepherd the younger boys along. That burden on the existing troop members increases exponentially when you start adding younger and younger boys to the mix, who need more help, hand holding, etc. For this reason I think it is unfair to the boys already in the troop to expect them to accommodate a 9 year old.

 

I also think it might be a bit unfair to expect most 9 year olds to thrive in a boy scout troop, where they'll be the youngest, least experienced, by far, and probably socially a bit behind the curve, too. The first year of boy scouting is a difficult transition for many boys; I don't think you do a service to your son by pushing him into it prematurely, and you might just find he sours on the whole experience if he isn't really ready. And with great respect, he does not know whether he is ready. That's the nature of being 9. He is still a child.

 

And finally, if you do manage to get your son into a troop, consider that he may have difficulty establishing the legitimacy of any rank, merit badges, or other awards he earns prior to turning 10. In my council, when a boy sits for his Eagle board of review, a panel of well-versed adults look carefully at his boy scout record. They look at the dates listed for each rank earned. All it would take is for one of them to notice that he earned his Tenderfoot rank as a 9 year old (hypothetically) to cause an uproar. Do you really want to worry about that? Sure you could game the system to get around that, but is that ethical and in keeping with what the boy scouts teach?

 

I'm sorry if any of the above sounds harsh. I'm sure your son is a great kid. But pushing him into this is probably not a great idea, even if you can convince a troop to take him early, and the council to look the other way while he violates national BSA rules. Very few 9 year olds would thrive in a troop of older teens, and the great majority would suffer for it.

 

 

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

Kids like this blast right through the program getting all the boxes checked never really leading peers, never backpacking, never seeing the fog burn off a lake he had to portage to 20 miles to nowhere listening to loons and owls, hearing a raven gurgle.

 

Go right ahead, get em' all checked off and be the youngest Eagle ever.

 

I wonder if somebody is grabbing him by the wrist hustling him along? Stop and smell the roses kid you're only a boy once.

 

Take a look at Michael Jackson (freak that he was) rushed to adulthood he spent millions with the Neverland ranch, trying to be a kid again. He found out you can never go back.

 

Have you earned the map and compass PIN? Can you orient a map? Did you set up the pulleys in the Engineer Activity badge and show how the load is reduced?

 

 

There is a whole banquet, a virtual buffet of activities, you are short changing yourself if you go through the drive through.

 

 

No I am not positive, you are blowing through town passing every red light and the devil may care what happens to others that may have to depend on you or jump out of your way.

 

I would not want to be your Patrol leader in a boy led Troop, not that I think you'll pick that over the numerous Eagle mills that will satisfy your time clock.

 

Sorry if you see my truthful response as unkind. Frankly I'm telling you the kindest advice of all, never grow up too fast.

 

Christmas,your first kiss, and a ton of other things are to be savored not rushed because the next thing after adulthood isn't very much fun. Heaven can wait, I wish I still had my first BB gun and was still collecting bottles for BB's and those balsa planes that you could buy for 69 cents or even the $1.29 one with the plastic propeller. Being able to ride my bike to the store was a lot more fun than driving to work.

 

I'm an SM and probably in some eyes not a very good one.The fist thing I would tell you is to go open your bear book and build a crystal radio with your Dad and enjoy the magic in that. I'd give everything I own to buid mine with my Dad again.

[nldscout]

We had a parent that tried this same thing. Claimed her twins were so advanced they needed to move up to Boy Scouting at 9.5 yrs of age. Applied to council for an exception, was turned down. Then appealed to National and was denied also.

 

She then took boys out of scouting, it was a shame because they enjoyed it.

 

Sometimes an aggressive parent is a boys worse enemy. I have seem young people from time to time that because the parents push them so hard that at around 16 they rebel and start getting in trouble just to pay parent back for all the pressure. Then before you know it, they are standing in front of me in handcuffs on thier way to Jail.

 

Let a boy be a boy and move up when he is ready, not when the parent is ready for him to move on.

[evmori]

uz2bnowl,

 

That was a fantastic post! Thanks!

[eghiglie]

uz2bnowl

 

Yes, 2nd that great post.

 

The joining requirements for a Troop seem to be just a touch different than earning the AoL. To be honest most Troop's want the boy to meet the joining requirments because life for the boy will be a better experience.

 

Do not rush, but don't procratinate either, when you get there be active and Eagle will come, before your 18th birthday.

 

 

[JerseyScout]

I echo those who say "don't rush!" Enjoy Cub Scouts, its not about the destination (Arrow of Light), its about the journey, the friends, and the memories, and its a good time to boot.

 

Boy Scouts will be waiting patiently for you when you are 10 1/2, and you'll be able to zip through the ranks then if that's your goal.

 

 

[SunnyD]

I think everyone agrees that under the current requirements this youth cannot earn AoL. The reasons given seem to focus on why he should not cross over to Boy Scouts. Why are we equating the two? Rules are made to be changed, not broken. So let's shift the conversation a bit.

 

Let's look at the requirement. Be active for six months since finishing the fourth grade or turning 10. This lad has been told he hasn't "earned" the award yet. He has done everything within his power to do so. What he hasn't done yet is simply be older. Is that really much of an accomplishment? Why do we have this requirement? If it's for the scout to have been active in the pack, he could have been the most active scout in the council for four years and still not have met the requirement. Perhaps he has won the Pinewood Derby and earned all the pins, participated in every event, etc. as some have suggested. If he's such an overachiever, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Even if he hasn't, what does that have to do with earning AoL? If those are requirements, then add them. Is it so that he's shown leadership? Then make it a requirement to do so, not just to reach a certain age, which one can do without being a leader. Is it so that he won't rush through the other requirements? By the end of the fourth grade year he has had 12 months as a Webelos. Plenty of boys join at the beginning their fifth grade years and rush through in 6 months.

 

Let's face it, there is absolutely no point to this requirement other than to slow boys down and prevent them from crossing over sooner. So why is this a requirement for earning AoL rather than a joining requirement for Boy Scouts? The two are not the same thing. One is an award earned through accomplishment. Being a certain age is not an accomplishment. The other is simply a set of qualifying criteria - different altogether.

[John-in-KC]

If the child is documented as "gifted and talented"...

 

If the child is has met the elementary education critera (imo with straight A's, otherwise he's simply being pushed by the winds of helicopters)...

 

If the child is about to, indeed, skip a grade because he is that far ahead of the curve...

 

Then and only then should DL, CM, parents, SM, UC and COR be talking about an early movement up the line.

 

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IMO, maybe 50 Scouts a year, Nationwide, will justify accelerated entry.

 

In other words: The odds are pretty heavily weighted for "due course" movement. There is plenty of program to support him through his ordinary movement up the line.

[Eagle92]

Sunny good question. Once upon a time, Webelos was a 1 year program. When they expanded in into the 2 year program, the AOL requirements were changed to the current model.

 

Part of it is so the cub scout will have the maturity to join a troop. Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting atre to very different programs, and some 10.5 y.os, heck some 12 and 13y.o.s I've met were not mature enough to be in the program.

 

As for why the AOL equates to Crossover. originally the AOL was called the WeBeLoS Award, nd it was suppose to prepare you to become a BS. I took a minimum of 6 months to earn,usualy taking almost all nine months of the school year, and when you received it, it was the pinnicle of Cub Scouts and you were fully prepared to become a Boy Scout. Heck when I was coming through, You got AOL, you automatically received the Scout badge unpon Crossingover, and could get the 2 month service requirement for Tenderfoot waived!

 

So yes the purpose is to slow down.

[Eagle92]

Also let me tell you two stories about racing through the ranks. grant you they are about getting eagle, but the moral can be applied to the CS in question.

 

There were two Eagle Scouts I knew. One Eagle focused on getting Eagle as soon as he could, did everything and got his Eagle at the ripe old age of 13, and then dropped out of the program. Didn't come back to Scouting until his son became a TC.

 

Second Eagle was just as focused on getting Eagle. But there were a few challenges in the way at first, specifically the swimming requirements. But he got his Life by 14, and was well on his way to completing eagle before his 15th birthday, but a few things happened. First he got selected to go through the NYLT course of his time. He had an good experience and learned alot. Then elected into the OA, and had some fun. Then he spent 2 years saving his money to go to a jamboree and do a 50 miler in Canada. Basically he was having a blast and barely got his Eagle.

 

So who had the better Scouting experience? Both are Eagles, but one rushed it through and didn't stop and smell the roses. The other Eagle had fun, had some adventures and had a blast.