Swiming Req. not fair?

[NickP412]

im almost eagle now and got this requirement years ago, after months of training at my local YMCA pool. i guess ive always viewed that as a little unfair, being able to complete the swimmers test just to advance. now before you say anything listen to my logic please. i think this req should be changed.

 

in scouts we dont make the boys get swimming merit badge to get eagle, we let them choose swimming, hiking or cycling. so why not change the req to be something like :

 

"Do one of the following:

A-Complete a Swimmers Test

B-Hike a X Mile Trip

C-Ride a X Mile Bike Trip"

 

what do you think? not all boys can swim, they knew this when they choose the eagle badges but why didnt they think fo this when they made the first class req's. also as i said above, i did get this but i know some boys who havent yet.

[ASM59]

Nick,

 

Interesting thoughts, but I believe that swimming is a very important skill to master. It is true that not everyone has the same aptitude, but that just means that some will need to try harder. Youre living proof that it can be done with a little work.

 

For those who have very real physical or other handicaps that prevent them from completing the requirement, there are ways to petition for an alternative or exception.

 

I could make the same argument about any other requirement in the handbook. For example, I have a hard time remembering knots, so there should be an alternative.

 

Stretching yourself builds character. You can feel very good about yourself for having overcome what was difficult and conquering it.

 

Good Job !

ASM59

 

As a side note:

Ive found that most who say they cannot swim have parents that cannot swim. The parents taught extreme fear of the water to their kids and thats why they will not swim (not cant swim). In most cases these kids can be taught confidence by showing them that they will not sink like a rock.(This message has been edited by ASM59)

[skeptic]

Nick;

 

Unless a scout has a physical problem, there is no reason he should not be able to do the swim requirements. If this means learning to overcome a fear of water, then it is a growing experience as well. But, because being able to at least swim at a minimal level is really a safety issue, it should stay. It is like suggesting that because a boy has trouble with math, he should not have to do personal management. Unless he is challenged, then he just needs to overcome the obstacle. Part of growing up is facing challenges; and this is one that basically all scouts need to face.

 

When I was a scout, back in the dark ages, we still had to learn morse code or semaphore. While the code itself was easy for me, the skill at sending and receiving was truly difficult. It took me months to learn it; but the challenge was met, and I grew from it.

 

If we simply allow anything that is not immediately achievable to be done away with, we really have a pretty weak program.

 

Just my thought at the moment.

[Hal_Crawford]

Because everyone should know how to swim at least enough to pass the swim test. Someone once said that water is death waiting to happen. That minimal level of swimming ability might make the difference between life and death someday. The ability to hike or bike are not as likely to save a life.

 

Personally, I would make Swimming a required MB.

 

By the way, I am not a strong swimmer and struggled to pass the swim test when I was a scout. Swimming ability has saved my life several times since then.

 

Hal

[GernBlansten]

I think its critical that every human being be water safe if at all possible. Think of the doors that open to recreation and life when one is a swimmer. Its so natural for us too. A person who fears the water has learned it, its not something you are born with, its something that you learned either from a bad personal experience or someone else.

 

My son (Eagle and lifeguard) and I (old, soft lifeguard and water safety instructor) are currently working with a scout in our unit who has Aspergers Syndrome. He can't swim. Yet. He absolutely fears the water. He does because his parents fear him being in the water. We are working on his 2nd Class requirement. So far, we have been able to get him to submerge by himself in shallow water, float on his belly and swim about a 20 feet. But he won't jump in over his head. Yet. He's 14 and we have time. Should he be granted a waiver for the swimming req? In my mind, absolutely not. He can do it. We just need to work at it harder than with other scouts. If we can make him a swimmer, we will have given him a greater gift than any other scout requirement could have. Without scouts, he would never have even been challenged to do it. Relax swimming requirements? Why on earth would we?

[prairie]

Take a look at a globe of the world, we should call this planet Aqua not Earth. Learning to swim is a great way to learn to control your emotions, panic leads to trageddy, calm response combined with training should avert same.

I am one of the slowest swimmers you will ever meet, training and practice makes me very unlikley to ever drown. I have also fallen asleep doing he back float in calm water. Plus SCUBA diving is a blast.(This message has been edited by prairie)

[Nike]

50%, or thereabouts, of our population lives within an hour of the coast. More live near rivers, lakes, and borrow pits/quarries. Drowning is very frequently preventable. Every one should know how to swim and perform basic land rescues.

[evmori]

You make a good point, Nick, but not all boys can ride a bike or hike for a long distance, either. I agree with the others that swimming well enough to pass the swimming test is necessary.

[desertrat77]

Looking back, learning to overcome extreme fear of water has been one of my proudest accomplishments.

 

As a cub, I failed the Red Cross beginners course and had to repeat. Yes it was that bad. Then one day it just clicked and I loved the water.

 

As a boy scout, I went on to earn Lifeguard BSA and served on the waterfront staff at scout camp, teaching lifesaving and swimming MBs.

 

Was it easy? Heck no. Was it worth the trouble? Yes indeed!

 

Seems these days, parents buy into their kids' fears and shortcomings...and unwittingly help solidify them. We've got to provide the encouragement and means for kids to overcome those challenges that tax their brains and will power. If the kids show resolve and are determined to see the challenge through, they will learn something that will benefit them their entire adult lives.

[artjrk]

My Father nearly drowned as a kid. To this day he has an aversion to swimming. I believe the Swimming merit badge was all that kept him from getting his Eagle. But he has not let that fear stop him from teaching us to love the water. Growing up we were one of the few homes in town to have a pool. My brothers and I grew up knowing how to swim with out being formally taught it just became second nature. My Dad is an excellent canoer (?) figuring that if he was really good he wouldn't ever actually end up in the water. Yes he can swim, just his anxiety makes him not want to. Does he regret that he didn't get his Eagle because of all this? Maybe, but as I have mentioned before he has gone on as an adult to lead us three boys thru scouts, while at one time being CM/ASM/SM(different troop)/Explorer post leader.

 

Today, Scouts can Option out of the Swimming MB with Hiking or Biking (which my kids are doing) but the importance of basic swimming ability is there. Otherwise the Scout would also miss out on all the boating, canoeing, rafting activities.

[Gunny2862]

Nick let's put the shoe on the other foot for a second, even though it is NOT what the program is about. I say again this Point of View is NOT what the program is about.

 

Would you as a responsible adult take 10-30 age 10 and 1/2 to 18 youths out canoeing without knowing that the majority of them could swim well enough to exit a canoe and swim to shore?

I know that isn't what the requirement is for but can you imagine if the basic requirement weren't there how many youth would opt not to even attempt to show how well or poorly they swim, or fail to.

 

Can you imagine the howls of parents, who after signing the permission slip then scream "You killed my baby!, How could you have taken in him water over his head!" no matter how slow the flow.

 

I, also, personally believe that the swimming MB should be required, BUT, since it's not think that the basic blue swimmer test is about as minimum as you could safely get, and even then a person isn't "water safe" as the test is typically administered in a clean, clear, no motion, pool setting, and the majority of non-pool activities will not take place in such ideal conditions.

 

Realizing that we are talking out-of-program here the test is as minimally fair as you can possibly expect(to the adults who are charged with ensuring your safety) while expecting responsible adults to agree to sign up to help do activities with.

 

Back to your regular programming...

 

(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[Eagle92]

Nick,

It is essential that everyone has a basic degree of aswimming, especially in scuting as there are so many aquatic possibilities.

 

I did drown when I was younger, they had to do CPR and call EMS to resuscitate me, and I was terrified of the water for years. yes I had lessons and could do well inthe shallow end, but get me chin deep in water and I would panic.

 

When I crossed over into scouting, my mom gave me a choice: learn how to swim and remain in scouting, or get out of scouting. At the time it seamed cruel, but in the long run it was best. If I didn't knwo how to swim, I would not have gotten past 2nd Class, I would not have been abel to go on troop canoeign trips, I would not have been abel to do the 2 fifty-milers with the BSA, I would not have been a Sea Scout, I wouldn't have earned BSA Lifeguard, i wouldn't have been able to go kayaking in the English Channel with the 5th Deal Sea Scouts, and I can go on. My life would not have been the same as I would have been deprived of a myriad of opportunties, all because i couldn't pass a swimmer's test.

[NickP412]

i guess your all right, if we made a exception for one we would have to make an exception for all./

[Eagle732]

I think we should bring back Swimming and Lifesaving MBs as the only option.

When I was a kid my dad was an ASM and we had a boy in our troop who could not swim. For two summer camps he failed the swimmer test. This Scout decided he would work at swimming until he could pass. He came to our house to swim in our pool almost every day. My dad worked with him until we went to summer camp. He passed his swimmer test at camp and took Swimming MB and passed it too. The next year he took Lifesaving MB and passes that. He became an Eagle Scout but it didn't come easy. Unless you have a physical handicap anyone can learn to swim if thy are willing to try hard enough.

[Abel Magwitch]

I believe the swimming requirements for the lower ranks need to be revised a bit. Just as a Scout has options when earning merit badges - Hiking and Cycling instead of Swimming and Lifesaving, a Scout who cannot swim should have some alternatives.

 

I live in an urban environment. I can tell you that there are many kids who do not have the opportunity to learn how to swim. Our city has some rec centers with only basketball courts instead of pools. And the city pools we do have are mostly outdoors and are only open for 4 weeks in the summer.

 

So does this mean that the Eagle badge can be unobtainable for some Scouts who do not live in affluent areas? Whose parents or (single) parent cannot afford to join a YMCA or other organiztion where swimming is available? Or the fact that an indoor city pool is too far away to walk to?

 

Currently the answer is yes - kids with few or no opportunities to learn how to swim cannot obtain the Eagle badge unless they complete their swimming requirements for the lower ranks.

 

I'm sure that there will be some who will post that the Scouts can learn how to swim during a single 40 minute instructional swim each day during summer camp. Good luck Scout in mastering your swimming skills in a pool full of Scouts. But whether you believe it or not, there are kids who do not have opportunities to swim in the big city.

 

I feel that the requirements need to be revised on this one.