counselors for many badges

[shortridge]

While I doubt it's ever happened, anywhere, a Scoutmaster could certainly find out who the counselors were going to be at summer camp simply by asking. By the end of "staff week," the program director should know who's going to be teaching which merit badges during which weeks. (If they don't, that's a red flag of gigantic problems ahead!) You can then check those names against your council's registered merit badge counselor list. I can guarantee you they won't match up 100 percent. You can also ask for details about the counselor's experience and background.

 

If you have concerns about a badge being taught by a sub-par counselor at camp, a SM certainly does have the ability to stop a Scout from from proceeding. Make your concerns known to the camp leadership as soon as possible. If you get no recourse and have legitimate, serious concerns that a Scout did not meet the requirements or that a counselor was not registered, refuse to sign the blue card (or equivalent) at completion.

 

A unit's standards should not be lower simply because it's at camp.

 

# # #

 

Psst, psst: Want to throw your camp and council into a tizzy?

 

- On your first day of camp, when you're walking around on the typical tour, ask each area director you meet how many of their counselors are under 18. Keep a list.

- At the leaders' meeting that night, inquire just how these underage counselors - 14, 15, 16, 17 - got council approval.

- Ask just how the camp met national standard M-73 ("Staff members are trained as merit badge counselors ... A letter from the council advancement committee is provided approving merit badge counselors.").

- Demand that the camp provide 18+ MBCs to meet its obligations to the chartered organization.

[Eagle732]

The point I was trying to make was not about the quality of the experience but that I have no say in which counselor the Scout gets. I've never had a Scout come to me with a blue card with the name of a counselor who I thought was not qualified or was a poor match for the Scout.

[shortridge]

You're right in that you don't have a say before the fact. But you can certainly make your voice heard.

[BrentAllen]

shortridge,

Summer Camp staff do not have to be registered MB Counselors. From our Council Summer Camp Leader Guide:

 

"Camp staff do not sign off on any advancement or merit badge requirements, rather they report the achievement to the unit leader via the end of camp advancement reports. It is the responsibility of the unit leader to actually award credit for completing advancement or merit badge requirements."

[shortridge]

BrentAllen,

 

That's new to me - sounds like a council-specific policy. So the Scoutmaster is supposed to be a counselor for every merit badge taught at camp? Or else refer the Scouts to a registered counselor to re-do the requirements?

 

Per Scouting.org: "The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor."

[John-in-KC]

There are actually paragraphs in ACP&P #33088 covering summer camp advancement procedure Council Advancement and Camping Committees are to take.

 

One method of managing: Allow youth to take the training, but require them to meet a Counselor back home for the testing phase.

 

I would do that in conjunction with shortridge's suggestion.

 

Meanwhile, to Northbell: Have we answered your questions? May we help with other questions?

[John-in-KC]

Brent,

 

That might work for T-2-1, but in the MB process, a qualified Counselor is the person who signs off the Scout had met standards.

 

Now, if your Council is saying that Scouts Bobby, Billy, and Jimmy are ready for testing, that's one thing. OTOH, if they're saying the SM makes the call on whether or not to award a MB based on camp completion, that's wholly different.

 

Please, can you clarify?

[Northbell]

Yes, thank you, my question has been answered.

 

I have spoken to our SM, and he does see the need for some changes. We have a boy led troop, but like many, parents tend to get in there and "make it better". I like that scouts can make their own decisions but I think the SM should be in on the decision of MB counselors.

 

I do have another question.

 

What do you recommend for this scout: Loves scouting, lives scouting but does not complete merit badges? Always involved in the patrol leadership but not advancing. He works at our district summer camps every year so does not go to summer camp to work on his merit badges. How would you motivate him to get to eagle?

 

 

[John-in-KC]

It may be he is getting the fulfillment and growth he desires from where he is right now.

 

It may be that he doesn't need the external recognition of Eagle.

 

Personally, I think the best thing is for Mr SM to have a friendly phone call with Mr Camp Director or Program Director about this Scout. Get a POV from someone else who is deeply involved in his growth and development. Then, and this is the tough part, Mr SM goes out to camp, hooks up with Mr CD/PD, and they take him offsite for a friendly mentoring meal.

 

In other words, show this Scout folks consider him worth receiving extra effort, because he is already giving extra effort.

[shortridge]

Northbell,

 

Interesting question.

 

What rank is your Scout at, and how old is he? He may simply figure he has plenty of time to do the "un-fun" stuff later. Are there certain badges he's not interested in earning (the Citizenship cluster, Personal Management, Family Life, etc.)?

 

You could have been describing me at one point in my Scouting life. The OA and summer camp staff became far more interesting than my troop around the time I turned 15, and that's where I poured my energy into. I just wasn't all that hot on what I saw as the dull routine of advancement and unit leadership when I could lead and teach on a much, much larger scale that was both more exciting and innovative - I'd already been there and done that, countless times. Earning Eagle didn't even rank in my top five priorities once I hit 16.

 

I did get some pressure from my unit leaders and other Scouting mentors to go for Eagle when it was clear I wasn't interested. (I even got an offer for the troop to do an Eagle project for me when I was away working at camp - I would barely have had to do a thing.) But truth be told, the more I was pushed, the less interested I became. Be gentle when you talk with this fellow (as I'm sure you will).

[Northbell]

This scout is a badge or two away from life scout. He will be 17 soon. He says he is interested in making eagle and has thought of a project. I just wondered how much resonsibility the troop has in motivating him. He does sound like you did, Shortridge, more interested in other parts of scouting. I think scouts that have parents at home that help keep a boy moving forward have a better chance at eagle, is that your experience?

[John-in-KC]

I think scouts that have parents at home that help keep a boy moving forward have a better chance at eagle, is that your experience?

 

Supportive parents are better for a young person in all shapes and forms.

 

Almost 17 and Star. He's got work to do, but it can be done.

 

He's already shown he's willing to do much. Being a camp staffer is tough. Long days and not a lot of pay. Even so, it's hugely rewarding. If your council is like mine, your SM has to sign off on youth members as staff. That means your SM buys in to this young man at some level.

 

I stand by my earlier advice: Mr SM and Mr Camp Director need to take this young man offsite for a friendly mentoring meal. Help him see the journey, visualize it. If he buys in, you're off and running. He might not; he may be getting the rewards he needs. He's growing up; it should be his call.

 

[BrentAllen]

John,

My main point was that many of the staff are under 18, and they are allowed to help teach the classes. Each Area has a MB Counselor who supervises the staff and teaches. The term "counselor" gets tossed around loosely at camp, so 16 & 17 year olds may call themselves counselors when by BSA Standards they aren't.

 

"Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor."

 

Shortridge's post made it sound like ALL staff at Summer Camp teaching MB classes had to be 18 and had to be approved MB Counselors, which isn't the case.

 

With a camp the size of Woodruff, it would be impossible to give out Blue Cards for every Scout (800 - 1200 Scouts per week). At the end of the week, we receive a "Scout MB Completion Report" for each Scout. It lists all the MBs the Scout took, and each MB is marked either as Completed or Partial, with the requirements that weren't completed listed.

 

At the bottom, it states "I certify that the Scout listed above completed the course of study for the listed merit badges. If the "Completed" box is checked, then all requirements for the merit badge were completed satisfactorily. Otherwise, the comments indicate which requirements were not completed, and a partial is issued for the uncompleted merit badge." It is signed by the Program Director.

 

If the report states completed, I award the MB to the Scout. It is my understanding that the MB Counselor for the badge has submitted that information to the Program Director. I have to turn in an Advancement Report to the Council (or do it online) in order to purchase the badges at the Scout Shop. The Camp Staff do not turn this information into the Council or to Scoutnet.org. That may be what they mean about the unit leader awarding credit. HTH.

[John-in-KC]

H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation beds down 1500 Scouts and Scouters every night of 6 10 day sessions.

 

Our Council employment system is:

- Youth Staff below 18: Hired as Instructors. Work under supervision of Counselors, a NCS qualified AD(s), and and NCS qualified Dir.

- Young Adult Staff, 18-21: Hired and trained as Counselors. Work under supervision of the ADs and Dir.

 

- Adult Staff: Hired and trained as ADs or Dirs.

 

It can be done, but your Council has to commit to the work. I remember the first year I was Troop Advancement Coordinator. After Camp, my Advancement Report was 9 pages long, with over 200 MBs earned in toto.

 

Looking back, did we do the best QA job we could as unit serving Scouters? No. Have I learned? Yes.

 

Of course, I have it pretty good: EagleSon staffs our Bear Resident Overnight Camp.

[shortridge]

Are we approaching (or past) a spinoff point?

 

BrentAllen wrote: "Shortridge's post made it sound like ALL staff at Summer Camp teaching MB classes had to be 18 and had to be approved MB Counselors, which isn't the case."

 

Actually, that's exactly the case. All counselors have to be 18+ and approved. That's as clear as day.

 

There are counselors and there are assistants. Assistants are not counselors. They should not be independently teaching a merit badge, nor reviewing completion of the requirements. That's the purview of the counselor, who must be 18+. Assistants can teach a particular skill, or help coach Scouts, or even run part of a class. But they are not counselors.

 

Yes, the reality at many camps is in direct conflict with ACP&P. I first signed off on blue cards at age 13, as a CIT teaching Basketry and Indian Lore. It broke almost every rule in the book, and it was never challenged by anyone - leader, Scout or camp inspector. But that doesn't mean the rules are wrong.