counselors for many badges

[John-in-KC]

Ed, tend to agree, but I'm not sure of this Troops' checks and balances in any way, shape, or form.

 

Much as BW could be BW, his point about using the various program materials the way they are supposed to be used, and about taking basic, advanced, and supplemental training, is spot on. It's harder to do all this stuff when you're winging it.

[Lisabob]

Because the SM already signed the card and accepted the badges as complete, I think you close the book on these and follow John's advice. Another approach may be for the SM to have a conference with these boys explaining that although this badge "counts," future badges done in such a way will not be accepted. Not in a confrontational sort of way, just a reiteration of what the process is **supposed** to look like, along with an honest acknowledgment that both sides (boys and SM/troop adults) need to get back on track with the process.

 

"Can a SM actually appoint a counselor?"

Yes. The SM gives the name and contact info of an appropriate counselor (or a couple of counselors, maybe) to the boy. The boy then contacts the counselor provided by the SM.

 

I know a lot of troops do not do it this way, but as you are now seeing, there are good reasons to do it. Among other things, sometimes some counselors are a poor personality match for certain types of boys. Sometimes a boy needs to be challenged a little by working with a different counselor. Sometimes a particular counselor really doesn't do a very good job and the SM might prefer that the boys in the troop do their work with a more competent individual.

 

Case in point, I know one counselor for the Communications badge who pretty much signs off on all requirements for anybody with a pulse. He is super-willing to interpret requirements in such a way that the boys can do a sort of cameo appearance at a Court of Honor or Camp Fire, and he signs off on the requirement that they plan and conduct one of these. He's a favorite with a lot of scouts because of this, but the boys sure don't get much from working with him. Some SM's would prefer not to have their scouts work with a counselor like that.

 

 

BY THE WAY: You should probably give a heads up to your district adv. people that you had this situation, and whatever steps you take to handle it. What you wouldn't want is for someone in the future to challenge the validity of these merit badges at a boy's Eagle board. (Probably wouldn't happen in many places, but I know that some places they do check to see who a boy's MB counselors were for Eagle required badges.)

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[ghermanno]

Northbell,

 

First and formost, GET A LIST OF DISTRICT APPROVED MBC's for your District. Your Troop can NOT approve a MBC even if it is for Troop only. Approval is District/Council designee only.

 

If your MBC is NOT approved by the District for the Merit Badge, then it has NOT been completed. Can it be assigned to another MBC in the Troop? Yes, IF they are approved by the District for that Merit Badge. As others have stated, the adult contact SHOULD be done outside the Troop, that is why as DAC, I reccomend ALL the MBC's that I train NOT to mark Troop only as that limits the boys they can serve. I also educate the SM's to try to use MBC's that are local but not in Troop.

 

I also reccomend that the DAC meet with your SM/ASM's/CC as well as COR and UC if available to go over the advancement policy from "Soup-to-nuts". Merit badges are an important part of the Scouts advancement and getting out to meet/work with adults not in your Troop is essential (kinda like prepping for an interview).

 

Good Luck if your DAC has not updated the MBC list. I check mine monthly and have people arguing that they should be on the list but will not turn in an application to me.

YiS,

 

Rick

[Northbell]

All of our Merit badge counselors are registered through the district. If our troop does not have one listed, scouts go outside of the troop, usually to a near by troop.

we have never used the district list but will get it right away. We have a large troop with past leaders still willing to counsel as well as many parents.

 

Our SM does sign the card but has allowed the scouts to pick there own counselors. This situations shows that this needs to change. For the younger scouts, sometimes parents are the one's picking the counselors and making sure the cards get back to the SM to be signed. Parents are picking counselors that are easier to work with, which is fine as long as it isn't for every badge. I think a wide assortment of counselors benefits the scout the most.

 

Even though the scout has completed the blue card, isn't it his obligation to make sure he has registered counselor (our troop uses the website to do this)? Because their parents just thought this person was approved would make the badge void, in my opinion. Ultimately, I will give all of this info to the SM and let him decide!

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Even though the scout has completed the blue card, isn't it his obligation to make sure he has registered counselor?

 

No, no, no, a thousand times, NO.

 

It is the Scoutmaster's personal responsibility to assign a qualified merit badge counselor. Period.

 

Scout responsibility begins at gaining contact with the Counselor, after assignment.

 

Rick or Lisa, I'm still out of position. Do one of you have access the right words from the Scoutmaster's Handbook, please?

[Eagle732]

Another thread talks about troops being boy led and how SMCs and BOR's go against the boy led theory; "... the YMCA added Scout Spirit requirements, Scoutmaster Conferences, and Boards of Review to keep BSA Troops adult-led." And here we point to the BSA requirements that the "Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors." How does this help the troop become more of a Boy led troop? I leave the responsibility of choosing a MB councilor to the Scout, I think they are very capable of doing it themselves. After all B-P said never do for a boy what he can do himself.

[John-in-KC]

Eagle 732,

 

What I am doing here is reciting the policy as it now exists. I serve our District Advancement Chairman by teaching Merit Badge Counselor training before a new Counselor does his app.

 

What I am doing here is presenting current National policy as written in the various BSA literature. That's it.

 

What the OP's unit does is up to their SM, CC, and COR.

 

As far as what right should look like on advancement policy, go ahead and open a thread on that. Kudu should come a'running. I might even participate. Here, though, I present what's currently in the literature.

[Eagle732]

Hey John, I'm just pointing out that on one hand we (BSA) champion the boy led theory and on the other we (BSA) take the simplest task such as choosing a MBC, and make it an adult decision. My post wasn't meant to criticizes you and what you're doing here, just the BSA policy, which I apparently don't follow.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Here are my thoughts on the matter:

 

- We who are Scouters join, or return to the movement to raise up the next generations of American youth. We believe Boy Scouting develops the "whole man." If we didn't, why are we spending time on this board?

 

- Our goal is to apply all eight Methods of Scouting. We want the kids to develop and mature to the point of a miniature model of a working society. That means elections, that means bringing the leaders together to evaluate information and make decisions. That means allowing the neighborhoods (Patrols) room to be such when in the outdoors (believe it or not, I like Rick's 300 foot rule. Not always do-able, but certainly a darn good idea.

 

- This isn't Barrie's "Never-Never-Land". Our young charges are going to encounter crotchety, cranky, bent-out-of-shape, ironbound set in their ways adults all their lives. They need to learn to deal with those guys, along with those who are more mature and reasonable. SFAIK, there's only one way to learn how to work with an adult, and that's to just do it and learn through the school of hard knocks.

 

- Our young charges don't know it all ... to quote Rush, many of them have "minds full of mush." I don't use that as a derogatory (as he does), but to me their minds are not set and baked yet. They're still learning and growing. Take a moment and look at Lisabob. She's got two sequential advanced degrees in her field. That means she knows a thing or two about her field. She counsels, in her field, Boy Scouts. Do you think a 16 year old can bring the experiences she has in Citizenship in the Nation to the table, while maintaining the rule of "do not add to, do not take from?" I think not.

 

If Rick (and I don't mean ghermanno down in Texas) sees this, he'll spew off about management theory again. His problem, not mine. If we do this right, we give the kids a growing up in the outdoors, teach them the values of America, and get them learning to cooperate and succeed. Not a bad mix, Scouting is.

 

[evmori]

The Scoutmaster is the "gatekeeper" for MB's. When a Scout wants to work on a merit badge the Scout & the Scoutmaster have a chat about the badge & the Scoutmaster assigns the Scout a registered MB counselor for the MB. Says that in the Scoutmaster handbook and the Boy Scout handbook and other places as well.

[BrentAllen]

"Hey John, I'm just pointing out that on one hand we (BSA) champion the boy led theory and on the other we (BSA) take the simplest task such as choosing a MBC, and make it an adult decision."

 

This is how "boy-led" gets twisted into things it isn't supposed to be. How is a boy choosing a MB counselor leading anyone? This part of the program isn't about leadership issues - it is about Adult Association. Boy-led is about leading patrols and other PORs, planning the annual calendar, trips and weekly meetings. It is about working with teams (patrols, PLC) and getting the members working towards a common goal. Choosing a MB counselor does none of this.

 

The SM is in charge of the advancement program. He assigns the MB counselors.

[John-in-KC]

Brent,

 

Thank you for saying it more eloquently than I

[Eagle732]

So I'm wrong to allow the Scouts the responsibility of choosing their own MBCs. They choose from the council's approved list and the MBCs are all adults so they don't miss out on the association. You're right that it's not about leadership but it is about allowing Scouts to make decisions. And by the way I have no say over who the counselor is for merit badges earned at summer camp. The Scout chooses the MB (and yes I let them decide on which MBs to take all by themselves) and the camp provides the counselor.

[evmori]

Ah but the Scoutmaster is the one who is to assign a registered MB counselor. That is part of the job description.

[Lisabob]

Summer camp is not a good comparison point. You have to admit that many summer camps employ sub-par "counselors" (and I use that word loosely) resulting in boys not really learning a heck of a lot and being cheated of a better experience. Not all, of course, but seems like a problem that pops up on the boards here pretty often.

 

By telling the kid to pick who ever he wants from the council list, you are missing an opportunity to match the boy up with some adults who might be real inspirations. Kids typically will either pick the person they know (who may, or may not, be a particularly good match for that kid and that badge) or else, the first person on the list. Or, if your troop doesn't have a history of boys working more or less on their own on MBs, boys will hear from others about who is "easiest" and many others will pick that counselor, regardless of quality.

 

Presumably you know a wider selection of scouters and might recognize that Mr. Smith is someone who a particular scout would really get a lot from working with, while Mr. Jones would be kind of a disaster for that same kid.