counselors for many badges

[Northbell]

Our troop is very active with scouts earning rank and merit badges steadily. We have many counselors available with several to chose from for each badge. Recently a group of scouts turned in cards signed by a counselor who was not on our website listed for that badge. The counselor apologized and offered to sign up with the council office. This was done and the scouts given the badge. Unfortunately, it has happened again. The SM in our troop does sign the cards before the scouts begin but no names are given for counselors because they are on the website. This person is willing to sign up for the badge after the fact.... but is this the right thing to do? The scouts should check the website and chose the counselor and we have spoken to the scouts about this.

[evmori]

The Scoutmaster should be giving the Scout the name & contact information for a MB counselor for the badge the Scout wants to work on.

[dg98adams]

A MBC can should sign up with the council BEFORE signing a any MB card. Automatic approval is not a slam dunk. What happens if they aren't "approved"?

[shortridge]

When you say this happened again, was it with the same "counselor" or the same Scouts?

 

If the SM explicitly outlines the MB process and points the Scouts to the website, and they're deliberately finding someone not on the list, it sounds like they're trying to pull a fast one by finding an "easy" counselor. That may not be the case, but there's really no other reason to do something like that.

 

If it happened again with the same counselor or Scouts, the SM should not in any way allow that person to sign off on the requirements. The Scouts should have to re-do the work, as necessary, with an approved counselor. The Scouts should know better. You don't get credit when you don't follow the rules. If a foot is put down, THAT lesson will be learned, trust me.

 

That's one of the reasons why the SM has control over that process and is supposed to provide a name or several, to maintain quality control. If there's an approved counselor who's dodgy or sketchy, the SM can simply not refer the Scouts to that person. Simple and easy.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Hal_Crawford]

In our district they have password protected the MBC list and recommend that Scoutmasters not give access to the scouts. The SM assigns the MBC rather than allowing the scout to go shopping. This was done in response to situation similar to yours.

 

Based on our experience, I recommend that you and your district nip this one in the bud. One bad MBC who doesn't play by the rules can cause untold chaos on your unit's and district's advancement program. If this guy is in your unit let him know that he will not be approved for any further merit badges. Contact your district advancement committee (or merit badge czar) if you haven't done so already to make sure that he does not do an end run to them.

 

Good luck.

Hal

 

 

[Lisabob]

As a matter of clarification, is this person not on your Troop's website list, or is he/she not registered as a MBC with the district/council?

 

In the former case, this is actually irrelevant, as it is supposed to be the district or council that approves MBC applications and maintains the list of current counselors for each badge. In the latter case, this does need to be dealt with and one way to do that is to alert the district advancement chair to the problem.

 

More immediately, your SM can be clearer with the boys in your troop. Either the SM needs to give specific names for approved counselors to the boys, or the SM may need to reiterate that while all of the people on the website list are approved counselors (and therefore acceptable), anyone who is not on that list may not be an approved counselor. If a boy then wants to work with someone off-list, they had better clear it personally with the SM in advance (who then needs to verify the person's registered status as an MBC for that badge), or risk not actually earning the badge.

 

 

[Northbell]

The scouts and the counselor were the same in both cases. The counselor is signed up for several badges and the parents and counselor claimed they thought he was signed up for the badge. The first time (which obviously was a bad choice), we signed him up and allowed the scouts to earn the badge. The website list contains mostly counselors our unit only, not the district list.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

One of the basic duties of the Scoutmaster is to know his youth and the adults working with him. It is the Scoutmaster's DUTY to assign a Boy Scout to a Merit Badge Counselor. Whatever form the MB app takes, the SM approves the start of the MB and specifically assigns the boy to a MB Counselor.

 

There is a simple way to deal with this case: The CC and SM thank Mr Counselor for his past services and ask him not to counsel within the Troop again. The CC should also notify the COR of this decision.

 

On a longer term basis, the Adult Association method (which is a part of the MB process) means youth should get away from Mr Smith and Mrs Jones, who they know already. In just a few years, these young folk will be applying to complete strangers for jobs. Give them the confidence that only comes from practice. Use other Counselors within your District.

 

Of course, that means the adult leadership of a Troop needs to attend District Roundtable, and other functions. Then, Mr SM will get to the know the other Scouters in the area, so that he has an idea of fitting boys to Counselors.

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Lisabob]

OK, so is this guy a registered counselor for the district, for the badges in question?

 

If he is, I'm sorry, but you lost that battle when the SM didn't direct the boys to a specific counselor.

 

MBCs do not have to be registered with your troop. If he was approved at the district level, he's an approved counselor.

 

Now, if you want more control over who the boys work with, then as John said, you need to have the SM play a more active role in making those assignments.

 

If he isn't registered with the district/council as a counselor for the MB in question, then he's not a counselor at all, very simple.

 

(On the other hand, I know some districts/councils have difficulty maintaining accurate lists. For example in my area, somehow I ended up being listed as registered for totally different badges on the district vs.council lists - and one of them is totally wrong. This has led to some annoyance and a few hiccups. If that's the type of situation this fellow faces - screwed up records at a higher level making it hard for even him to know what badges he's supposed to be counseling, let alone for boys and other leaders to know - then you all collectively need to voice your displeasure at the mess, make clear to your district advancement folks that you want it fixed NOW, and ask how you can help so everyone has accurate lists from which to work.)

 

 

[Northbell]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

This counselor is a member of our troop, the parents are also in leadership. The counselor is not registered for these badges in question. Our district form allows us to designate if the counselor wants to counsel outside the troop for the district or just within the troop. Applications for a merit badge counselor are signed by the appropriate people and turned into the disrict office. Approval has never been given, just assumed when all paperwork goes in.

 

Sounds like SM needs to get involved and this badge redirected to another counselor to be done again. At this time the SM does not know the situation even though he signed the card as finished.

 

[John-in-KC]

NOW YOU ARE GETTING DICIER.

 

A merit badge, once awarded, cannot be withdrawn. ACP&P #33088.

 

What Mr SM needs to do is have a Scoutmaster Conference with the boy. Mr SM needs to apologize to the boy, explain what happened, and ask him to re-do the testing phase with another Counselor.

 

This time, do it right, take it out-of-Troop.

 

The Scout might give pushback. Given where your MB system is, if he has indeed done the work to standard, you may have to suck it up, put him on the Advancement Report, and award him the badge.

 

It's all going to depend on how Mr SM approaches his part of humble pie.

[John-in-KC]

One final recommendation:

 

Invite your Unit Commissioner and the District Advancement Chairman to a Committee/SM/ASM all hands meeting. Ask them to walk you through the complete advancement process, soup to nuts. Ask your COR and IH to attend as well.

 

If there's a problem here, I would not bet against there being other advancement deviations in your Troop.

[Northbell]

Good point about a merit badge cannot overturned. I like your suggestion of the SM meeting with the scout to apologize for the oversight and ask for it to be done over though.

 

Is it not appropriate to use a merit badge counselor in the troop for it to be done over? One that is registered? I realize it is best for the scout to use as many different counselors as possible, but this is not usually the case when a scout finds one that is registered and works well with him. Can a SM actually appoint a counselor? I think that may be adding to the rules. ???

[John-in-KC]

First, the SM being the gatekeeper of the MB system in your unit:

 

From BSA Requirements 2009 #33215/#33216 (glue or spiral bound):

 

Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you.

 

Emphasis added.

 

It is wholly the SM's duty to assign MB Counselors. Period. Not an ASM, not the Advancement Coordinator on the Committee, the Scoutmaster. Period.

 

As far as going outside, this young man is a good starting point. Push the kids outward. Their experiences will be useful for them soon enough. They're going to confront complete strangers when they hire out at the grocery store, McDonalds, Scout Camp, or the auto parts store. Why not let them learn that part of the experience now?

 

Merit Badges are not just about the skill. They're about ADULT ASSOCIATION as well.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[evmori]

If the counselor isn't registered, the badge isn't valid.