Policy for a BOR

[Hint]

Can anyone pinpoint a link to the BSA policy that states a Scout has a right to request a BOR at any time (of course with a couple weeks notice)? I believe I have seen it mentioned on here that Scouts do have this right but I was hoping to find something official.

 

Our quarterly Troop BOR was held on June, Day X. My son is eligible for a Palm on June, Day X+7. It has to be exactly a minimum of 3 months between Eagle Palms and his last one was on March, Day X +7. The Scoutmaster is already complaining about the one my son will need in September, Day X+7 as it will fall on the day after the first troop meeting of the academic year. My son has many years until he is 18 and has a ton of merit badges so it seems as if this is going to be a recurring issue.

 

 

 

[evmori]

Quarterly BOR? So there are only four BOR's per year? Not good.

 

BOR's should be scheduled as needed.

 

I'm not sure there is anything that regulates when BOR's should be held or who can request them.

[CNYScouter]

There is a supplemental training module for Board of Review Training #18-625.

 

From this module(highlights mine):

 

...An ideal troop might hold monthly boards of review, possibly at the same time as a troop meeting. A troop with few Scouts might conclude that monthly boards are unnecessary as too few Scouts present themselves for advancement, but that would miss one of the functions of the board. A board should be set up to review accomplishment and lack of accomplishment. The board can counsel with Scouts who are not advancing to determine reasons for lack of progress and to stimulate these Scouts to greater participation in the program. This function is of equal importance to the function of reviewing boys who present themselves for advancement....

 

This training module used to be available on www.Scouting.org but with the new web page design the link no longer works.

 

If you would like a copy of this PM me with your email address and I can send you the document

[nolesrule]

This quarterly thing always baffles me. Are there really only 4 days a year that 3 members of the committee can get together to do boards? All it does is hold boys back who are ready to advance because it's an inconvenience to the adults.

 

Based on your description, it seems that the Eagle Board of review was out of sync with the troop's board of review schedule, so everything is off by a week.

 

I've said it numerous times, holding them quarterly is adding to the requirements for advancement without even realizing it. The ranks of Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class have no time requirements (except for a couple minor ones like the physical fitness 30-day progression). Star has a 4-month requirement, Life and Eagle are 6 months.

 

By not holding BORs on demand, they are automatically turning Star into a 6 month time requirement, and if boards of review are held slightly less than 3 months apart that forces the boys to wait yet another 3 months for Life or Eagle. That's potentially adding a 50% increase on the time requirement for those 3 ranks. For Eagle Palms, poor scheduling could result in a doubling in the time requirement, as you've become aware.

 

As a unit commissioner, I recommend to my units holding them monthly in conjunction with the monthly committee meeting (or on a separate night if they'd rather not pile it on), but still being flexible enough to hold them during meetings or even on campouts during some downtime in the itinerary. It's not like the boys need to "study" for these things, as it's not a test.

 

(This message has been edited by nolesrule)(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[Hint]

In addition to the quarterly BORs for the other ranks, Eagle BORs are held on demand so to speak.

 

My son did request this back in mid-may to remind the SM that the 3 month anniversary was coming up. My son's first Palm BOR was on December, Day X+7. It was the night of the troop BOR. His 2nd one was on March, X+7 and the troop did hold a special BOR for him (happened to be on the same night as a troop meeting so it wasn't difficult). June, Day X was the troop BOR but he isn't eligible for a week later until June, Day X+7 which does not fall on their troop meeting night. If this is going to be an ongoing occurance (he has enough badges to earn Palms through his 18th birthday which is not until 2012) and they know he is going to need a BOR exactly 3 months apart, wouldn't it make sense to just schedule the quarterly BOR for everybody on this night anyway? I have sat for many BORs (both regular and Eagles) even when they are on "off" nights.

 

Can a boy go to a different troop and have a Palm BOR there if it's in the same district? We have a lot of BSA troops in our town and there is usualy different ones meeting every night somewhere.

[kbandit]

Our troop conducts BOR on an as needed basis. We are lucky as we have several committee members (more that 3) that attend each week's meeting. BOR at summer camp did 3/4 last year (T-1).

 

As a committee member doing BOR as needed is part of the program. I do not know where it is written in a manual/guidebook. I have seen that Court of Honors should be a least 4X a yr. Maybe this is where the thinking of 4X a yr for BOR is coming from.

 

As for Eagle Palms, most Eagles are close to 18 and it is important to do the BOR ASAP. Any chance maybe Committee Chairman could speak to the Scoutmaster regarding this? Just because your son in not close to 18 should not matter as I am sure he wants to get all the Palms he can earn.

 

Scoutmasters should not complain when a scout is advancing. Could having a scoutmaster conference before/after a meeting be an option?

 

Good luck and tell your son congradulations on Eagle and Palms.

[nolesrule]

" My son's first Palm BOR was on December, Day X+7. It was the night of the troop BOR."

 

As I said before, I don't condone quarterly BORs. But if a troop that holds its quarterly BORs on DAY X, then every subsequent BOR needs to be scheduled on Day X or later. If the next BOR is held Day X-1 (or 2,3,4,5,6,7, etc.), then anyone who completes Life, Eagle or a Palm requirement in the minimum amount of time is forced to wait an extra nearly 3 months for no reason other than because the adults want to get in the way of advancement.

 

Of course, the problem with that and Eagle Palms is that the EBOR does not coincide with the quarterly schedule, so that means palm BORs will always be at a minimum 5 months and 20-whatever days, and that's an issue.

 

And that still doesn't resolve Star BORs, which can be held no sooner than 4 months after the previous BOR.

 

At least with monthly BORs, no Scout has to wait more than 27-30 days depending on the month. Even better is the on request BORs, so a Scout doesn't have to wait more than 1-2 weeks.

 

Does your unit ever have 3 committee members present at weekly unit meetings or on campouts? If so, then there's no reason to wait 3 months. It only takes 10-15 minutes to do a BOR and then it won't take hours to squeeze them all in a single night every 3 months.

[nolesrule]

Oh, I found this on the BSA website

 

"Question: How often is a board of review held?

Answer: Whenever a Scout completes all the requirements for any rank, from Tenderfoot through Life, he appears before a board of review. He does so after having a conference with his Scoutmaster. Note that when a Scout has completed all the requirements for a board of review and then requests to have a board of review, he may not be denied a board of review."

 

Whenever a scout completes all of the requirements. That's when the BOR should be held. It doesn't mention Eagle Palms, but the same standard should apply.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx

[NC Scouter]

Is there any reason a BOR can't be held a few days before the required time has elapsed and the rank or palm post-dated to the required date.?

 

I agree with those who say that units should not be so rigid in scheduling BORs, but I also don't see the downside to the arrangement I propose.

 

It would certainly be inappropriate to abuse this idea by having the BOR only 2 weeks into the 3 months, for example, but as long as the BOR is held within a week or so of the minimum time required it seems to me the intended purpose is accomplished.

[artjrk]

First of all, our Troop does BORs basically on demand during our regular weekly meeting time with the understanding that we have enough adults available on any given night.

 

But this struck me as odd:

 

"My son did request this back in mid-may to remind the SM that the 3 month anniversary was coming up. My son's first Palm BOR was on December, Day X+7. It was the night of the troop BOR. His 2nd one was on March, X+7 and the troop did hold a special BOR for him (happened to be on the same night as a troop meeting so it wasn't difficult). June, Day X was the troop BOR but he isn't eligible for a week later until June, Day X+7 which does not fall on their troop meeting night. If this is going to be an ongoing occurance (he has enough badges to earn Palms through his 18th birthday which is not until 2012) and they know he is going to need a BOR exactly 3 months apart, wouldn't it make sense to just schedule the quarterly BOR for everybody on this night anyway? I have sat for many BORs (both regular and Eagles) even when they are on "off" nights."

 

It sounds as if the poster is suggesting that the Troop reschedule everything around this boy's time schedule. He has enough MB to get Palms every three months until 2012 so all must schedule to his needs? Yes, a regular monthly schedule would help out but to expect such immediate attention seems too much to ask. As a leader we try and work out calendars for Scouts as they work their way up to Eagle (within resaon) but what is the difference between getting 10, 11 or 12 palms?

 

[nolesrule]

"Is there any reason a BOR can't be held a few days before the required time has elapsed and the rank or palm post-dated to the required date.? "

 

Advancement policy is that the board of review is held after all the requirements are met. That would include the time requirement.

[nolesrule]

" As a leader we try and work out calendars for Scouts as they work their way up to Eagle (within resaon) but what is the difference between getting 10, 11 or 12 palms? "

 

If the kid has met the requirements and wants to advance, why hold him back for no good reason? What makes an Eagle Palm less worthy that the kid should have to wait 6 months because the scheduling doesn't work out?

 

Even if they aren't on demand, if you hold them monthly and make sure that the day of the month is always equal to or greater that number from the previous month, there won't be time issues (a month is like Feb 20 to Mar 20 or Mar 20 to Apr 20, not 30 days).

 

From the way it was described, they aren't holding them exactly or slightly greater than 3 months apart, but rather a few days to a week less than 3 months....

 

" My son's first Palm BOR was on December, Day X+7. It was the night of the troop BOR. His 2nd one was on March, X+7 and the troop did hold a special BOR for him (happened to be on the same night as a troop meeting so it wasn't difficult). June, Day X was the troop BOR but he isn't eligible for a week later until June, Day X+7 which does not fall on their troop meeting night."

 

This schedule affects more than just Eagle Palms. If the December BOR was held on X+7 and the June BOR was held on X, that means no Scouts who earned Star in December could have their Life BOR in June.

 

Yes, there does need to be a reasonable expectation to get the thing scheduled, but that should mean the next meeting, campout (if 3 committee members attend) or committee meeting night AFTER June X+7. (I don't think it would be reasonable to demand a BOR for a day that is none of those things.)

 

(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[Beavah]

Hi Hint,

 

The answer to your question is that there is no BSA policy that requires a unit to schedule a BOR to fit the scout's schedule, and expecting a unit to do that is pretty discourteous. There is also no BSA policy which prevents a unit from holding BOR's only monthly, or even quarterly.

 

Yah, that havin' been said, the general intent of da program is to allow boys to advance at their own pace, eh? So if they have the adults to do it, most units either schedule BORs as needed or they do a monthly gig. That's what most of us would encourage.

 

Remember, your son is askin' other people for the generous gift of their time, eh? Time away from their own family to do somethin' nice for your boy. That's not something that you (or the BSA) can demand from 'em.

 

Most people have a finite time they can give to scoutin'. Sometimes a unit schedules BORs because their committee members are doin' other things in the meantime (you know, like plannin' Eagle BORs or maintaining equipment or makin' arrangements for those outings your son goes on .

 

So best bet is to ask nicely and be generous in your thanks (you and your son did write all those Eagle BOR members thank you notes, right? Your son did write his last specially scheduled palm BOR members thank you notes, right?).

 

By bein' courteous and thanking people, you're far more likely to get 'em to think differently about the scheduling than if you start wavin' "BSA Policy" at 'em, fictional or otherwise.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Lisabob]

Agreed, there is no requirement that BORs occur only every ___ months and quarterly BORs are probably not a good policy for a troop.

 

But...

 

When I read this thread I immediately thought of a couple of parents I've met along the way. These parents insist that everything be done on an expedited schedule (theirs, of course) the very moment that a time deadline passes. BORs, merit badge completions, rank requirements, etc.. Heaven forbid we miss a day because that throws off the parent's schedule for their child's next accolade.

 

Our troop has a large, functional, flexible, dedicated committee. We typically can do BORs and Eagle project reviews within a week of a scout requesting a review. Every once in a while though, we also have our own lives to look after. Sometimes "on the spot" isn't going to happen. These parents seem to take that as a personal affront, as if we're deliberately stone walling their kids (which isn't the case at all) and as if this really is a race to see who gets the most ribbons, medals, patches, pins, etc. on the day they turn 18.

 

Those sorts of parents really need to take a breather.

 

Probably (hopefully!) Hint is not doing what these folks have done, but having had these experiences definitely colored my initial reaction to Hint's posts. Perhaps some leaders in her son's troop have had similar past experiences and that might help explain their current reactions.

 

And incidentally, the requirements for palms are NOT just merit badges and 3 months.

See http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank8.asp

 

 

[Hint]

First of all I apologize that my posts came off as abrasive. I agree that it's not all about my son (who does write TY notes fairly promptly (w/in a couple of days) with minimal reminders and definitely meets the other Palm requirements by staying active in the troop and serving the troop in various leadership positions, being active in OA, helping with other scouts' ES Projects and in any capacity that he is needed or wanted).

 

We live in a hyper-crazy area with way too many helicopter parents who max out their kids' schedules with APs, ECs, travel teams. They bribe/threaten to not let kids get their licenses until they earn Eagle. I try not to be one of those parents. I am definitely involved with the troop and will help out with MBs, BORs, troop committee, etc. As the female parent, I do not think it is appropriate for ME (not all moms) to be an ASM (not that anyone asked and I refused). We have tons of dads (and a couple of moms) as ASMs so there is no shortage. Our troop is big (about 80 scouts)but that is a standard size for our area.

 

In short, I agree that the troop cannot plan around 1 Scout's personal needs. I realize that a Palm BOR cannot be backdated or postdated on the form as suggested by nolesrule (to me that actually seems logical if it's within a week or so).

 

So as to not inconvenience the adult leadership of a Scout's main troop, can the Scout request a BOR from a troop within the district that happens to meet on the Day of X night? We live in an area that has many, many BSA troops that all meet on different nights.