Eagle Courts of Honor, Appellate Division

[eisely]

Ed

 

Let's clarify. I don't think you mean to say that the troop and scoutmaster have absolutely nothing to say about the content and conduct of an eagle court. If an eagle court is organized as a troop function, then the troop leadership has a great deal to say about it, including the scheduling of it. While our troop gives great deference to the eagle and his parents, everybody understands that the troop cannot be expected to do things the leadership actually objects to.

 

If the eagle and his family want to organize their own private ceremony there is nothing to prevent them from doing so, but I don't think any scoutmaster would agree to simply show up and do as he or she is told without any discussion whatsoever.

 

Eagle courts are collaborative events. Nobody gets to simply dictate.

[evmori]

eisely,

 

Yes that is exactly what I mean to say. An ECOH is up to the Eagle and his parents. If the Eagle wants the Troop to help or completely plan his ECOH, that's fine, but the Troop has no obligation to plan an ECOH for a Scout.

[nolesrule]

Where I come from, the family provides the location and any refreshments. The troop provides the ceremony. The youth or family can request specific participants if they desire.

 

Under normal circumstances, the troop's obligation is to present the advancement to the youth, and to recognize the advancement at a court of honor.

[scoutldr]

Ed, that may be YOUR troop's policy...but it is certainly not universal.

 

FWIW, the last 3 Eagles that we produced have not bothered to let us know if they want a COH or not. Apparently, it's too hard to think about unless someone forces them to do it (like earning the rank itself). One finally stopped by a troop meeting to pick up his credentials...two years after the BOR, which was the last time we heard from him. I feel dissed.

[sherminator505]

Ed's right. There really isn't a regulation or rule requiring the Troop to have any direct involvement in any Scout's ECOH. That said, in most cases there is a satisfactory relationship between the boy, the parents, and the Troop and the Troop is willing to pitch in wherever it can. If the relationship goes south, then the arrangements fall entirely to the parents.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[evmori]

FWIW, the last 3 Eagles that we produced have not bothered to let us know if they want a COH or not.

 

Eagles that you/your unit has produced? Interesting. In the unit that I was a SM for, the Scout earned his Eagle. The unit didn't produce anything.

 

Apparently, it's too hard to think about unless someone forces them to do it (like earning the rank itself). One finally stopped by a troop meeting to pick up his credentials...two years after the BOR, which was the last time we heard from him. I feel dissed.

 

Feel dissed all you want! We had a couple Scouts who earned Eagle that never had a ECOH! If they want one, it's up to them, not the unit!

[Eagle92]

I wouldn't worry about being dissed as things happen. 1 Eagle i know had his ECOF 4 years after earning it because he joined the USAF. had the ECOH after his discharge. Another also joined the USAF, which caused him to appeal to national (different story for a different day) and has yet to have his ECOH as he is still in.

 

As for ECOHs, every unit does it a little differently. Some units do everything, others it's entirely up to the parents, others is a combo of the two. For two units I know of, they only do 1 ECOH per year for all their eagles, and if yo miss it, so sad too bad( one young man was at basic when the ECOH occurred and they wouldn't do another one). One unit works with the eagles and their families, the other does it only on Scout Sunday.

 

So every unit does things differently.

[Twocubdad]

I look at it like a wedding. If I were a minister, I would accept a whole lot of input and personalization from the couple, but ultimately the ceremony is a rite of the church and there are certain standards I would insist be kept. If the couple doesn't want to accept the standards/restrictions of having the service in the church, they are more than free to go elsewhere. Likewise, a minister isn't required to participate any a ceremony which violates the strictures of the church.

 

I see an ECOH similarly. As I posted before, I consider the heart of the presentation to be a troop function. It certainly doesn't rise to the level of a religious rite, but there are things we do which are traditions of the troop and make the ceremony meaningful. I don't consider the ceremony we do sacred -- in fact I would be willing to listen to most any change. I would insist that we maintain the degree of respect the ceremony deserves. If a Scout insisted on including something in the ceremony we consider disrespectful, then the troop would reserve the right to decline to participate. By the same token, the Scout can pick up his credentials any time he likes and have them presented any way he likes with or without troop participation.

 

It's a double-negative arrangement -- either party can decline to participate.

 

 

[eisely]

The comparison to a wedding is apt in more than one way. Weddings should be joyous celebrations of the couple getting married. All too often the planning and execution of weddings become sources of acrimony as fixed ideas of one or more parents come into play or emotions from old woulds come pouring out. Just so with Eagle courts.

 

Our troop typically runs one ECOH each year and we have never had fewer than two boys being recognized at a single ECOH. One year we had so many eagles we did two ECOHs. The troop provides a fixed amount of funds per eagle and the parents are appointed as the committee to plan and execute the ECOH. If only because of the funding method, parents clearly have an incentive to collaborate.

 

I recall when our middle son got his eagle, there were four other eagles being recognized at the same time. I recall this one mom who insisted on using "her printer" to print the programs. When we were two weeks away from the date she still had not done anything. I made up the camera ready originals and another mom quietly stepped in to get the programs printed. Nothing was ever said or needed to be said, but this is the kind of thing that one needs to be prepared to deal with.

 

There's those words again, "Be Prepared!"

[Twocubdad]

Back in my old troop, Eagle presentations were part of our quarterly Troop Courts of Honor. We started with Tenderfoot and progressed right on through to Eagle. Everyone who had earned Eagle in that quarter was presented his award. The night I received my Eagle, there were a total of six Eagles presented. At the time, it was said to be a record for the Council. I never saw it as sharing the spotlight, rather it created a unique bond between the six of us.

 

And Ed, I disagree with you somewhat. The Scout didn't earn his Eagle in a vacuum. He was most definitely aided by the leaders and other Scouts in the unit. The presentation should be a celebration for the entire unit.

[BadenP]

Twocub

Except for the Catholic Church, by their incorrect and narrow definition, a marriage is not a rite of the church. A minister is only one of several legal authorities, judge, justice of the peace, etc., who can perform the pronouncement of husband and wife which is considered more of a legality than anything else. Heck someone can get legally ordained on line these days in five minutes and perform ceremonies.

 

On topic, I for one have never seen a boys troop not participate in an Eagle COH, there is no hard and fast rule except one that was in exsistence when I was a DE years ago told to us in training at National. The opening and closing of an Eagle COH is technically supposed to be done by a representative of the council, an SE, DE, Council, Dist or Unit Commissioner who are considered duly appointed representatives of the National office, since this rank is the only scout rank approved at the National level. This rule is rarely enforced but it is still there.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[evmori]

And Ed, I disagree with you somewhat. The Scout didn't earn his Eagle in a vacuum. He was most definitely aided by the leaders and other Scouts in the unit. The presentation should be a celebration for the entire unit.

 

Correct Twocubdad. The Scout didn't earn his Eagle in a vacuum. But the celebration should be all about the Scout not the unit. If the unit leaders want to pat themselves on the back and have a round of harrumphs they should do that on their own time. An ECOH is all about the Scout.