Missing HB = no BOR

[BadenP]

In my own council Scoutnet was either not recording or some other glich happened because many unit advancement records were lost in cyberland, on top of that it took the council over 3 months before they noticed they were not receiving any advancement records. All the unit leaders assumed the advancements were on file. Three boys who were Eagle candidates were smart enough to keep not only their handbooks but all other advancement paperwork together so their EBOR's went through without a hitch.

 

The council apologized to the unit leaders who now had to resubmit all their advancement records for the last six months to make sure everything had been caught and recorded. A lot of angry scouters let their feelings fly at that roundtable.

 

Moral of the story - Technology may be a wonderful thing but a paper trail is always a wise backup.

[shortridge]

"There's no requirement that he wear anything but his underwear, but I expect most of us would expect a boy to be clothed at a BOR, too."

 

Shirt & shoes required in most public buildings, too.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I could not agree more that "primary" is a much better choice of words. I will keep that in mind now and in the future. And, funny, I was thinking the same thing that compared to MS Summer's son's situation, this is a meaningless arugment indeed!

[asm 411]

I have just realized that we have a strange custom in our troop. When a boy completes his SMC the SM signs his book and then the Scout asks the AC for a BOR. When he makes the request he hands the AC his handbook. Sometimes the BOR is done moments after the request. Sometimes the BOR is done the next week. The Scout is returned his book after the information been entered/verified in Troopmaster. The verified part is just to be sure POR, community service and merit badges are all in order.

 

We did have one case where the committee did a BOR for a Scout that was one merit badge short. The Scout was told he was short. When he earned the missing merit badge he had another BOR. No big deal. I don't think he had a second SMC not sure.

 

Scouts have had SMC without their books. When the SM signs off on the requirement is when the Scout requests the BOR.

 

We really have not had any big problems with this process as far as I know.

[shortridge]

Except this issue isn't small potatoes to the Scout who was refused a BOR. He's probably upset and frustrated.

 

For me, it would come down to whether the bring-your-HB-to-BOR expectation is widely known and communicated in this troop, or whether it was something he was confronted with when he showed up for the meeting.

 

Yes, in an ideal world, all Scouts would bring their Handbooks to every Scouting event - troop meeting, patrol meeting, campout, camporee, jamboree.

 

But realistically, don't we all forget our keys, wallets and glasses from time to time, locking ourselves out of our cars or houses at the most inopportune moments? Cut the Scout some slack.

[Kudu]

Baden-Powell said that Scouting should be run by the Patrol Leaders and that it should be the exact opposite of school.

 

I guess that is why we make up fake Baden-Powell quotes for our official publications, such as "Scouting is a Game with a Purpose."

 

The "Purpose" of Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, Scout Spirit requirements, and six month PORs is to keep Scouting adult-run and make it more like school.

 

If BSA Scouting was based on Baden-Powell's Patrol System (as the fake quotes imply), Scouters would first hear that a Scout had already advanced in rank from his Patrol Leader.

 

For an example of how that works in practice, See:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm

 

Patrol Leader Owls: We're pretty good. Since the last meeting two of my Patrol have gained their Second Class; we held one Patrol Meeting, part of which was spent repairing the Patrol Den bookcase and part of which we gave over to mending our buzzer equipment and then practicing with it. We had a full turn out.

 

Note that in the following exchange about the Troop's "advancement" standards, there is no mention of business manger EDGE theory, job interviews, business resumes, or the importance of school books:

 

Patrol Leader Woodpeckers: The two recruits we had from the Pack aren't bad; they have both done fire-lighting and cooking. I always try to get this testing through in the winter so that they can get real experience.

 

Troop Leader (TL = SPL): Well, that's nothing to boast about; its Troop tradition anyway, but I am glad you are carrying it out for a change.

 

PL Woodpeckers: We haven't had a proper Patrol Meeting, except that we went on a hike a fortnight ago; all present except three. We went about eight miles and explored the old mill.

 

PL Owls: It's about time you found another hike route; you've been reporting about the old mill for the last eight months.

 

TL: Well, perhaps you can offer him one of your more imaginative hikes.

 

I wonder how many of us have ever had the opportunity to be embarrassed because our worst Patrol Leader hikes his Patrol eight miles to the old mill every month?

 

Gee, eight months to the same location? Where did I as a Scoutmaster go wrong?

 

Kudu

 

 

[evmori]

Our difference is "most official" v "primary." Compared to Ms Summer's SM and Committee, we're in the small potatoes department

 

Wanna bet this is how Ms Summer's sons unit operates? This might be small potatoes but it can lead to big potato casserole!

[FireKat]

We dont use troopmaster or anything like that. It is priced too high. Tracking the little achievements for rank is not the job of the adults in a boy lead troop. The boys learn how to track and report them to the adults. If something happens to their record they then learn how to fix it. It is part of the growing experience.  The adults may help but the boys help each other fix it. The boys do that in a boy lead troop.  In an adult lead troop, the small details are watched by the adults (ie troopmaster). 

Yes, we have boys transfer in and out. On out I tell them to present their book for lower levels (T12) to their SM. On all else, ScoutNet has what Natl has. After I submit an advancement via IA I wait about 1month and recheck it. When you enter things directly on ScoutNet they are in Natls database. Council only must verify. I have not gotten any of this lost in cyberspace. Submitting hard copies to council for them to enter in ScoutNet has gotten things lost. All troops have/can have access to this via a unit ID# and password. This is what Natland the DAC  looks at on a scouts advancement, not the book. If your unit does not know how to check this, they need to learn. Another scout in our district had his EBoR delayed  (not uncommon) due to dates not matching ScoutNet. They had used Troopmaster report to fill out their app, not ScoutNet data. Verify all dates with ScoutNet. 

 

[SR540Beaver]

All roads lead to the handbook. If it isn't signed there, it didn't happen. SM conferences for advancement don't happen unless all requirments have been signed off. BOR's don't happen unless the Scout Spirit and SM conference has been signed off by the SM. When the BOR signs the book, it all gets recorded in TroopMaster and the advancement record is submitted to council. If it does not get recorded in TM or sent to council......the sign off's in the book are the "primary" record that everything else springs from to make it "official". No seed, no tree.

 

I don't believe that expecting the boy to present his record as adding to any requirement. I am currently serving a large troop. The SM does not sign off on all requirements as the multiple ASM's are authorized by the SM to sign off on everything with the exception of Scout Spirit and SM conference. He needs to see the book to know that all requirments have been signed off. The BOR needs to see the book to make sure the SM has finished signing off the requirments before they sign off and take the information to add to TroopMaster. Let's keep in mind that we are trying to work within the frame work of the oath and law here. A scout is friendly, helpful, courteous and kind and we should not make the boy feel like a criminal if he forgets his book. That being said, a scout is trustworthy and obedient and every effort should be made on his part to be responsible and do what he knows is expected. Scouting isn't about participation awards. They are being awarded ranks for meeting requirments just like they will in real life.

[Twocubdad]

For what it's worth, we've had a number of instances in the past were the Council's records dieagreed with the troop records or the boy's handbook. The council registrar has always accepted the handbook as the final authority.

 

Kudu -- have you heard the old story about the prisoners who were in the same cell block so long telling the same jokes over and over that to save time they decided to refer to all jokes by number? One guy would yell "seventeen" and the whole place would break up with laughter. Another guys would yell "number eight" and everyone would groan and chuckle. Maybe you could do that with your complaints against "neo-Scouts." It could save us all a lot of time and effort.

 

#1 -- we are in violation of our 1910 Congressional charter

#2 -- the current mission statement is all wrong

#3 -- no one uses the patrol method properly

#4 -- Over paid corporate professionals have ruined the program

#5 -- everything went to pot after Green Bar Bill died

#6 -- all criticisms are personal attacks

And on.

 

Of course Wood Badge would need it's own section.

 

Just a thought.....

 

[evmori]

Heaven forbid a Scout loses his handbook & some of these units have no record of anything! The one who will be hurting will be the Scout!

 

Just because a unit is boy run doesn't mean the adults just sit around & twiddle their thumbs.

[shortridge]

I, for one, welcome Kudu's perspective, on this and other issues.

 

If you don't like what someone writes, well, that's what the "ignore" function is for.

[packsaddle]

I have found that the message gets through to me more effectively if my wife nags incessantly. Therefore, I appreciate Kudu's repetition of his messages. Eventually, it's going to sink in and I don't mind. Ahem, I suspect I'll pay more attention to the wife, though.

(Vicki, this one's for you)

[FScouter]

Primary, secondary, tertiary? We tell the boys their progress is recorded in their book, and we adults are not their mommy.

 

A primary purpose of the board of review is for the board to determine if the boy has met all the requirements. If he doesn't bring his book we tell him we like to review the sign-offs. We conduct most of the BOR, then adjourn until the next meeting. We then reconvene and finish.

 

Doing othewise teaches the boy that others are responsible for his personal affairs.

 

 

[evmori]

Doing othewise teaches the boy that others are responsible for his personal affairs.

 

No it doesn't. The Scout is responsible for his own advancement & keeping his own records whether in his handbook or on a million Post It's! But if the only records are kept by the Scout then there is the potential for all the records to be lost or destroyed and the only one who suffers is the Scout.