The Active Equals Registered Thing

[Twocubdad]

Nice try, HICO, but on appeal the Scout Spirit requirement is defined as "no felony convictions." The argument that an inactive Scout has failed to demonstrate Scout Spirit is not going to fly.

[evmori]

The Scoutmaster Conference prior to him seeing a board of review requires the SM to certify the Scout demonstrated Scout spirit.

 

No it doesn't. SM Conference & Scout Spirit are two separate requirements. A Scout can complete a SM Conference & have it signed off & not have Scout Spirit signed off or Scout Spirit could already be signed off prior to the SM Conference.

[Beavah]

Nice try, HICO, but on appeal the Scout Spirit requirement is defined as "no felony convictions."

 

Or, someone is goin' to point out that Scout Spirit is supposed to be demonstrated in the boy's everyday life, which means he can be a complete twat in scouting as long as his mom thinks he's a good boy at home.

 

Or, someone is goin' to read that dumb handbook paragraph from the second class requirement that says somethin' like "only you can judge whether you have truly demonstrated Scout Spirit" and claim that it means the boy gets to sign his own Scout Spirit requirement because the SM shouldn't judge scout spirit.

 

There is no language which can't be litigated into ineffectiveness if one of the two parties isn't willin' to stand up for what it believes in.

 

As I've said, I think most good units and adults just ignore all these newfangled interpretations. When a boy isn't fulfilling his responsibilities, they meet with him and encourage, but they don't sign off. Nor do they fire. They mentor. And most boys and many parents get that and go along. Only times there's friction is when a high-standards troop meets some low-standards parents (often the case when a family moves from a badge mill program - like many cub packs - to a non-badge-mill program). Or when a troop has become too mindlessly bureaucratic in its enforcement of standards.

 

Sadly, being too bureaucratic in applying standards usually happens because of having been burned by low-standards parents. Settin' up clear, hard rules and percentages is usually a response to some prior helicopter parent problem. "We're not going to deal with this again, we're going to put everything in writing and make them sign up front" sorta thing. So I really don't fault units who have gone that way. They felt they had to.

 

Happiness is findin' the right size porridge in between, eh? Where expectations are communicated clearly enough to be enforced, but mentoring and some flexibility remain. Where that is for each troop depends on the families the troop serves, I reckon. So we should all be careful when critiquing others without knowin' what they're dealing with.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

"Or, someone is goin' to read that dumb handbook paragraph from the second class requirement"

 

Dumb? in the best Maynard G Krebbs possible

 

You rang?

 

This is what the Socut handbook says about Scout Spirit:

 

Tenderfoot Defined p 47

Scout Spirit refers to the effort you make to live up to the ideals of Scouting. The Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan serve as everyday guidelines for a good life.

 

 

Tenderfoot, Requirement #13 p60

discuss scout spirit with your scoutmaster and with older boy scouts in your troop. Ask them for examples of how you can demonstrate Scout Spirit . You will likely hear examples of the Scout Oath and Law as ways to show your Scout spirit

 

Second Class Requirement #9 p108

Most requirements for Scout ranks can be measured by other people. When you set out to swim 50 feet for the Second Class swimming requirement, anyone can see that you have covered the distance. How well you live the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your life, though is something for you to judge. You know when you are being kind, when you are helpful and a good friend. You know when you are trustworthy. and reverent. You alone know how you act when no one is around to witness what you do. Do the best you can to live each day by the Scout Oath and Law. You might look back on some of the decisions you've made and wish you had acted differently, but you can learn from those moments and promise yourself you will do better in the future. And dont be surprised that when you use the scout oath and law for guidance, others will recognize those values in you and respect you for it. Set high standards for yourself and strive to reach them. No one can ask anymore of you

 

First class Requirement #10 p164

At troop and patrol gatherings you've recited the Scout Oath and the Scout Law dozens of times. The words come easily to you, but do you know what those words mean? The Scout Oath and Scout Law are not just for reciting at meetings. They are not just to be obeyed while you are wearing a uniform. The spirit of Scouting that they represent is every bit as important when you are at home, at school and in your community. The Scout Oath begins with the words, "On my honor. . ." Your honor is your word. By giving your word, you are promising to be of good character and to keep your reputation untarnished. Be trustworthy in all you say and do. Extend friendship to others. Be thrifty with your time and resources. Be tolerant of others, regardless of their differences, and celebrate the great diversity that enriches our nation and the world. Express reverence in accordance with your beliefs. Offer a helping hand because you want to, not because you expect a reward. The standards set by the Scout Oath and Scout Law are very high Strive to reach them every day, and you will find that they become as natural for you to live by as they are for you to say.

 

Star/Life/Eagle p170

BY NOW, DOING GOOD TURNS should be a regular part of your life You are always on the lookout for ways to help others.

By now, Be Prepared should describe your efforts to make the most of educational opportunities, get along with others, and take part in outdoor adventures. By now, the Scout Oath and the twelve points of the Scout law should be the guidelines by which you direct your actions in your family, community, church, school, and nation. Living by these high standards is always a personal choice and something only you can fully measure. But by now, many other people should be seeing qualities in you that make it clear you are choosing

 

"Your standing as a Scout does not depend so much on the skills of your hands or the badges an your merit badge sash, as an the spirit in your heart on what you are willing to do for others, on whether you are doing your very best to live the Scout Oath and Law:'

 

NB: nothing about how many trips or meetings you are supposed to attend, or even a note to the scouts to pay attnetion to the Scoutmaster as he may have attendance quota's the scout meeds to meet.

 

 

[Get Outdoors]

Thank you OGE, Great reminder. I think I'm going to read out of the book at our next COH.

 

After all these posts I've determined I can lead a horse to water but I can't make him drink.

 

For those that say if a boy is not participating it's due to lack of program. Take your head of of your DE's "you know what" We're a small 25 member Troop. I judge the sucess of our program by how many kids we have had drop out. We've had one in the past three or four years. I also judge our health by how many transfers we get from other troops. We average about two a year. I judge by how many crossovers we get. We've averaged 4-5 the past few years. I also look at how many register scouts don't regularly show up for meetings. unfortunatly 2-3. I don't judge by how many eagles we have. Spitting out eagle scouts is not specified in my job description.

 

That being said;

 

I still don't know what to do with these few older scouts. They have met the official requirments for advancement, participate in most troop meetings but I just cant get them on camping trips or anything outside of a Troop meeting. Trips that they sugested we do! Basically I think they are being lazzy or maybe "been there done that" or just have had enough of the outdoor program thing. However, if we let them slid on participation, where do we draw the line with the younger scouts. They could all basically camp a few times a year, do rank advancement and merit badges at home. Serve as leaders by text, Facebook and Twitter. We could all just get together a few times a year for COH's. I'll have the SM conferances with them via webcam. "scouting in the 21st century"......Kinda scary, isn't it.

 

 

My main concern, is these few "slackers" (they are really great kids)are pulling down the rest of the older boy patrol. Peer pressure, "well he isn't going so i guess I wont go just so I look cool" I'm thinking of pulling the plug on this patrol and mixing them into our very active experinced patrols.

 

 

[Beavah]

I think I'm going to read out of the book at our next COH.

 

Yah, happily that text has been deleted from da new handbook. New version strikes a more balanced tone, eh? "How well you live the Scout Oath and Scout Law can be judged by you and by others." (emphasis mine).

 

It also prominently highlights Green Bar Bill's text from da 1959 Handbook:

 

"You prove that you have caught this spirit by the way you help in patrol, troop, home, school, church or synagogue, and community and your habits of caring for your own things and protecting the properties of others."

 

So they've done a much better job of makin' it clear that scouting is an important part of a lad's "everyday life" and that he is expected to demonstrate ("prove") his scout spirit to others.

 

Spinnin' off Get Outdoors' great question...

 

Beavah

 

 

[eghiglie]

One day there will be a clear answer to this. One troop in my area requires the boy to get a letter from the SPL that he is a good kid. The Troop also has a very low advancement percentage and the SM retests a boy on everything at each SMC.

 

Thankfully my troop is small and I can get to know the boys.

 

Following the wide leverage in the rules from what Council has told me, a boy or two has advanced 'just because'. They can do the actions required such as a knot, but the 12 points are never followed. One boy brags that he is in detention every week, than comes to me to sign off the Cit in Community blue card.

 

The two boys who advanced 'just because' didn't stay on either. Somehow they got bored and moved on.