badges that should be eliminated

[GKlose]

It certainly isn't an official source, but here is one viewpoint:

 

http://usscouts.org/mb/proposals.asp

 

Guy

[CubScoutJo]

- Merge Dog Care into Pets. The BSA is showing a clear and blatant anti-feline bias.

 

 

AND a clear ANTI-RODENT bias

 

[desertrat77]

Some of those "easy" badges might be around for a reason...I earned a few of them myself as a youth (reading, dog care, firemanship). They gave me confidence to tackle the tougher ones.

 

The Eagle required "indoor" series (Citizenships, etc.) can be fairly dull. But they add something to the potential Eagles' knowledge in the long run.

 

The problem isn't the badges or requirements themselves. It's the low expectations that some leaders and mb counselors set for their scouts. Whether it's scouting, college or the work place, an easy "A" means little compared to the "B" or "C+" that you broke sweat to achieve.

 

 

[CubScoutJo]

I agree, Desertrat, (BTW, when I saw your name, I thought for sure you were going to agree with my anti-rodent bias complaint)

 

I especially agree with the idea that the low expectations of some counselors is what makes them less meaningful.

 

We've had boys go to camp and do "Communications" badge. Instead of actually being required to go to a public meeting (city council, school board, debate), the group had a mock meeting during one of their sessions where they pretended to be the meeting.

 

Contrast this with two boys who did this badge on their own, who went to a township meeting and got the whole experience of a REAL public meeting, with REAL differing points of view expressed, by REAL members of the community. They were very excited about the arguments presented by both sides for a new water line and zoning issues. (it got heated at times) One of the boys even wanted to go back the next month to see how the issue would be resolved.

 

You just don't get the same experience when counselors dumb down the requirements.

 

Jo

[NWScouter]

It comes to cost, to stock the Scout Stores around the country with badges and books. When it come time for a new batch of books or badges, especially if there has to happen just because of design change, reference or updating the material. If they havent moved then all the stock on the shelves is obsolete and the cost of the new stuff comes down to a business decision to keep or not.

[John-in-KC]

The Councils I've seen keep MB patches until inventory runs out. Council Scout Shops also do not stock 10,000 of each item the way Supply Corporation shops do...

[Mafaking]

 

I would eliminate wilderness survival.

 

Its not any more than, hug a tree, blow a whistle and don't eat anything until help arrives. That's a Webelso pin if you ask me. Compare that to personal management or camping and the wilderness survival lacks sophistication. Scouts take this thinking OK great I am going to learn minimalist camping and survival just on my wits.

 

 

[Mafaking]

 

I would eliminate wilderness survival.

 

Its not any more than, hug a tree, blow a whistle and don't eat anything until help arrives. That's a Webelso pin if you ask me. Compare that to personal management or camping and the wilderness survival lacks sophistication. Scouts take this thinking OK great I am going to learn minimalist camping and survival just on my wits.

 

 

[shortridge]

Mafaking -

 

Scouts shouldn't have that impression if they've read the MB pamphlet or even scanned the requirements. There's nothing in there about eating roots, building snares or carving a canoe out of a tree trunk.

 

If you or your Scouts have had a bad experience with Wilderness Survival, I'd suggest it's due to the teaching, not the badge. Just as one example, I've seen "classes" where students have been brought to a clearing and told: "Make your shelter." They prop some sticks up against a tree, throw a plastic bag over it, and pray it doesn't rain. That shouldn't cut it. (The Venturing Ranger award requirements have the Venturer sleep two nights in his or her shelter. I think that's a much better test of durability and construction skills.)

 

The fact remains that most people are rescued within a day or two after they're reported lost. The skills, therefore, rightfully focus on short-term survival techniques. But there's nothing stopping an ambitious Scout from becoming a fire-by-friction expert, or even a counselor from teaching fire-by-friction beyond a few minutes with the bow-drill kit.

[Eagle92]

I have to agree with shortridge on this one. I loved WS as a scout, and I've volunteered to help out with this at summer camp since they needed 2 adults on their "experience". The instructor I worked with was a freaking WS genius, and had high demands for the scouts. Heck I even learned a few things.

 

Still I do need to get a pocket sized SAS Survival Handbook book added to the survival kit

[Mafaking]

 

Wilderness Survival when compared head to head with the Webelos outdoorsman matches much better than when its compared against Life Saving. In Life Saving there is a lot of 'perform' and 'show' while in the Wilderness Survival MB its nearly all describe and explain.

 

If Life Saving were written in the same tense as wilderness survival it would be, wear a life preserver, stay with the boat and wait for help to arrive.

 

The blow whistle & hug a tree stuff is readily consumed by the parent of a sixth grade boy going out camping in the woods for the first time, but this hardly fits the super citizen image the program is trying to live up to.

 

 

 

[shortridge]

That comparison (Wilderness Survival to Lifesaving) is a problematic one in my mind. There are generally accepted principles involved in lifesaving techniques, plus a ton of certifications and a bunch of hoops you have to jump through to achieve those. There is therefore a generally recognized authority with a standard set of information to draw from.

 

There's no similar system in survival. Yes, you can take courses through NOLS or SOLO or another comparable organization. You can study at the knees of Tom Brown or Christopher Nyerges. But there's no "Tom Brown Survivalist" certification that teaches you to teach others. There's no "Red Cross Wilderness Instructor" program you can graduate from. Information on edibles varies widely from region to region. And all that together creates a lot of problems with the quality of teaching.

 

I'd much rather have my child master those "hug-a-tree" basics you deride than risk having an ignorant instructor give her potentially deadly misinformation about edible plants. People who have been lost will tell you their attitude and approach - not panicking - was critically important, and that's large part of what the requirements are about.

 

If she's lost, I'd much rather that she know about signaling techniques and how to attract attention instead of wasting time constructing elaborate deadfalls because her gung-ho wannabe survivalist teacher focused more on trapping small animals for food than on ground-to-air signals.

 

That's not to say the badge is perfect. Yes, perhaps there should be more action tasks in the Wilderness Survival requirements. I definitely think the pamphlet should be fleshed out more with regard to shelter and firestarting techniques. And I think two nights in a shelter would be better than just one.

 

By way of contrast, Wilderness Survival has nine action verbs in its requirements (show, list, put together, build, show, demonstrate, improvise, demonstrate, show), and just five "talk" verbs (discuss, describe, describe, explain, explain). Livesaving has 15 action verbs, five "talk" verbs and one either/or (show or explain).(This message has been edited by shortridge)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Mafaking]

 

Well shortridge we disagree on this one. I think the Life Saving comparison is an appropriate comparison. One is water based safety rescue the other is land based.

 

Wilderness Survival is a weak badge. It's really only half a badge as it was carved out of the old Camping badge requirements some 20 years ago. Maybe I am a tad too harsh on this one and should have positioned my point as "this badge needs an overhaul".

[highcountry]

Composite Materials was introduced in 2006, according to the fact sheet at scouting.org. (http://www.scouting.org/media/factsheets/02-500.aspx)

 

Regarding John-in-KC's point about putting Cooking on the Eagle-required list... it looks like Cooking is the 5th-most popular badge ever ("More than 4 million earned!") But there's been a huge dive from 1993 to now - down from 46,000 to 24,000.

 

And saddest is the fact that Backpacking has seen a similar plunge, from 8,800 in 1993 to 4,900 in 2007.

(This message has been edited by shortridge)

 

I suspect both Cooking and backpacking may be in decline as both badges have considerable requirements to them. many scouts probably look at them and since they require a lot and are not Eagle required skip them.

 

I am counselour for Cooking and am starting that badge now, I limited it to 5 scouts so they all have opportunity to plan and cook per the requirements during all of our campouts this year. Backpacking is another story. We are including several backpacking trips this year on our calendar to challenge the boys beyond the car camping and have 3 seperate trips, the scouts can acheive MOST of the badge. We won't be able to offer teh opportunity to complete the abdge however due to the 5 day backpacking trip requirement. I don't know of any leaders who can set aside nearly another week (with all the troop campouts, summer camp etc) and I seriously doubt I have scout in the troop with enough interest and motivation to do the 5 day backpacker. We will provide opportunity to get everything else done and leave it to the scouts to show interest in setting up the 5 day. Backpacking is primarily a badge for older scouts still deeply in the program but not for most scouts, I bet this is why it's participation has plunged.

[Lisabob]

Funny you should mention backpacking and cooking, highcountry, because my son is working on both of those now and enjoying them. He has, however, been pressured a bit by some folks to stick to the "Eagle Required" badges, as he is in his mid teens and a Star scout. Their concern is he get all the E_R badges knocked out before he gets into other typical late-teen distractions. My son's concern is more "what do I find interesting to work on?" Two rather different perspectives, I'm afraid.

 

Anyway, the cooking badge does have a lot of requirements but quite a few don't really take that much time to do. As for the 5 day, 30 mile component of backpacking, many summer camps offer week-long high adventure hiking options for older boys and this is how most I know of have gotten it done. In my son's case, his venture patrol has a week-long hike planned for this summer. In fact (as I've posted elsewhere) we've discovered there are so MANY adults who want to go that the question is how to manage adult participation, rather than how to scare up enough adults.

 

Those two badges are "electives" I would like to see more often on boys' sashes when they come to their Eagle BORs. Too often you see boys with the minimum required # and their elective badges are all things like scholarship and pet care. We can quibble over the relative merits of those badges I guess, but they do not scream "scouting" in the same way that backpacking, hiking, cooking, and others do.