Eagle Advisors

[mojo]

Pack Saddle,

 

Yes you have it right. As the DAC he is not allowed to sit on his BOR but is allowed to sign off on the project as his SM. Someone else form district signs off as the DAC, we just haven't gotten that far. He was given permission to work on the project and when we asked why did you okay him to work on it if you weren't going to look at it his response was "I didn't think he'd get it done so fast."

 

I am keeping a log. I plan to contact the council advancement chair next week if he hasn't been assigned an Eagle advisor by Monday. He really does want this and we will find a way, I just am sad that a child has to be singled out and punished for someone else's ego. The man is lucky bullying isn't against the law because that is what this is.

[mojo]

Another interesting point is the committee has now decided that you need three committee signatures for approval.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Are you telling me now that he did the project already, without the approval signatures? I'm not clear on this point.

[NealOnWheels]

Mojo,

 

Keep in mind the project plan needs to be signed by the unit leader before he starts. The unit leader in this case is his Scoutmaster. It is not supposed to be signed by an "Eagle Advisor". Many troops do not have such a thing as an "Eagle Advisor". You do not need an "Eagle Advisor" to do a project.

 

It will also need to be signed by a Unit Committee Member. There is only on line to sign on.

 

It will also need to be signed by someone from the benefitting organization.

 

The last signature is either from the District Advancement Committee or Council Advancement Committee. I guess it does not need to be the chairperson.

 

If he joins a different unit that will solve the unit leader problem. If he goes to the Council Advancement Committee he will not need this person's signature there either.

 

Once he finishes all his requirements then we can deal with the Board of Review which might present more challenges that can be overcome.

 

[mojo]

Neal on Wheels,

 

The signature lines are for Advancement chair, Committee member, benefiting organization and the remaining one says, "scoutmaster/coach/eagle advisor." Are you saying that an eagle adivsor can't sign instead of the scoutmaster? I thought it was either or. Please clarify.

[mojo]

pack saddle,

 

No he has not done the project. He had verbal approval to plan. So he planned, and is done with the write up and was eventually told to go ahead with the benefiting organziation's signature. The scout master has not signed off. So he can't start the project. And he can't go get signatures from anyone else because he is still waiting for the scout master to sign off. All he needs is a signature and that is all he has needed for 3 weeks. If he had a signature he could do the project in two weeks. He is ready to go and can't get a meeting with the SM to sign off so that is why we would like an eagle advisor. According to the handbook it appears you can use a signature from an eagle advisor isntead of the SM. The handbook says "scoutmaster/coach/eagle advisor" under the signature spot.

[NealOnWheels]

It does not say "scoutmaster/coach/eagle advisor". It says "scoutmaster/coach/advisor". That means Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, Venturing Crew Advisor.

 

Look at page 3 in the Project Workbook. Look at the bottom under approvals. It says "Unit Leader".

 

The Eagle Application says "Scoutmaster" but fails to mention the others.

 

I have not found anywhere in BSA literature where an "Eagle Advisor" is mentioned. Many units create this position. In some larger units this makes sense to me. The Scoutmaster still must approve the project.

[mojo]

You have so greatly depressed me. I thought if he had an eagle advisor they could sign off instead. So basically he is held hostage? Is there nothing he can do? I know the SM has been told to sign it but the person who is the chair over the committees but he hasn't done it and just keeps avoiding my son. What can be done?

[NealOnWheels]

Sorry, I did not mean to give you a downer.

 

This is why I am suggesting he move to a different unit.

 

The other option is to wait it out for however long it takes. I would not recomend that since you say the Scoutmaster bullies your son.

 

 

[mojo]

Well, I guess now I see that when there is no accountability in an organziation your only option may be to leave. How SAD. You really cant fight it at the organization level because an organization always wins. Or at least almost always. I think we will wait it out until summer is over and take it from there. If he has not signed him off by then we know of another boy who is leaving and maybe he'll join that troop for a few months while he makes eagle. (in another district). It is just so depressing that he may not be able to finish this journey with his friends.

[packsaddle]

Thanks Neal, I was about to write the same thing. I can only add that in step 2 of the 12 steps on the last page, it again lists, "unit leader". Unit leader could also mean ASM, but that line, "scoutmaster/coach/advisor" is less equivocal. This council does accept ASM signatures for that line. I'm not sure if others do and I'm not going to push it here lest we get 'clarification'.

 

Edited part: You guys are sure writing quickly. Mojo, when you write about finishing the journey it makes me a bit concerned. At age '14', Eagle or not, I hope you and your son do not consider yourselves as 'finished' with scouting. Assuming he does complete the rank in another unit, he will still have 4 years or so to continue to participate in various leadership capacities. I attained Eagle at age 15 and I stayed with the troop until I went to college because I really wanted to. I never considered myself 'finished' until I was booted at age 18, LOL.

(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[NealOnWheels]

The Scoutmaster is accountable to the Chartering Organization. But only to the point they hold the Scoutmaster accountable. They have the ability to choose the Scoutmaster. You could talk to them about the situation but that could very well make things worse. Many Chartering Organizations don't have any knowledge of their units and have no idea how units should be operated. They may not want to deal with it since they would not want to have to look for another Scoutmaster.

[mojo]

PackSaddle,

 

Ending the journey has only come about since the leader bullied my son. My son's best friend is now leaving, and the other scout he is connected to is also going to leave. Both of those are geographic moves as well as tired of the politics. This has so soured both our family and my son to scouts. I will be encouraging him to join a venturing unit or look at other units but I have a feeling he will leave and take a break for awhile. He wants to obtain eagle because he has worked for it and it is his goal, but as you pointed out if this is the kind of behavior the leaders are going to exhibit he can go find somewhere else to shine and go live a great life without them. I am not a hit the road when things get rough person. But I will also not leave my son somewhere where the policies of BSA are not cared about or followed and where men can't admit when they are wrong. If someone says, "Hey this is what BSA policy is" and when the SM/DAC says, "I dont' care" it's no longer BSA. Is't just BS. The BS of Mr so and so- not BSA.

[mojo]

Neals on wheels,

 

I would never go to the charter organization. It would never work. If you had told ME that this SM was capable of this I wouldn't have believed you. What makes a me think a church would give any thought to this. It would be "an angry parent vs an outstanding SM who raised a boyscout troop up from 0 to 50." That's what I meant by no accountability. What a lousy set up that the district or council can't go in an remove someone who is going against BSA policy, knows it, and doesn't care. No accountability means if a volunteer leader goes astray that the boy who is abused in the process gets screwed almost every time. That is a real flaw in BSA. If I had another son I don't think I would let him join scouts after this. We will stick this out until Eagle and then reevaluate. But I can't imagine staying after this, at least not in this troop. No accountability opens up to an abuse of power, why would it possibly be set up this way?

[scoutldr]

Hello, Mojo and welcome to our campfire. Sorry your son is experiencing this. We have just gone through this with another forum member whose son appealed to District and is awaiting a District level EBOR. I think the idea of finding a Venturing Crew is a good one...in a different District, if possible (you can join any unit that will have you - regardless of location). Your son can earn Eagle in a Crew, which is what I did back in the dark ages (called Explorer Post back then). I suggest a different District, because that way he gets a different DAC as well. Most venturing crews are high adventure, and you son may have a better time there anyway. Sounds like he has been black-balled for some reason. Have you and your son done some honest reflection to sort out why? If it's purely an age thing, then the SM is wrong and should not be holding him back. But there is a "SCout Spirit" requirement that is purely subjective. If that's a problem, it should have been addressed at his Star and Life BOR though...not wait until he's ready for Eagle signatures, then lower the boom on him. That's not fair. Our problem from this side of the forum is we only get one side of the story. I can't imagine why an "otherwise well-respected nice guy" would single out a scout for bullying. While I'm not doubting your honesty, a parent is not usually totally objective. You understand. Good luck and keep us informed.