Any hope of Eagle in this situation?

[urloony]

This is the issue for a boy in a troop that is not lead by me. His mother came to me asking what could be done.

The situation:

-The scout will be 18 in April

-He passed his scoutmaster conference last July for his Star rank

-His BOR was held last Oct where he was denied rank because he had been assigned Assistant Patrol leader for the previous six months which is not a listed position of responsibility.

-He was not given a project instead to meet the requirement. (The parent did not know this was an option at the time and the SM didn't offer it.)

-As a result the boy has been inactive for the last few months.

 

Here we are in December, is there any hope for this kid? It seems to me the SM screwed him over, is there any process or appeal that can be made or has time run out for this scout?

[Beavah]

Hi urloony,

 

Simple answer to your question: No, nothing can be done to give this boy Eagle.

 

None of da things you mention really matter - the BOR, position of responsibility, etc. Simply the fact that he was first eligible for Star last July means Eagle is not possible. He would need 6 months from then to make Life, and then six additional months to make Eagle. All before his 18th birthday. So his clock ran out when he didn't make Star last April.

 

I suspect that rather than bein' a case of a SM "screwing a boy over", this is da case of a boy who didn't get off his duff when he was younger.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[molscouter]

From July to October for a Board? That's ridiculous. That being said, no, there is no hope. If I read this correctly, he still is not yet a Star Scout. Minimum time from Star to Eagle is one year. Even if he had gotten the Board the same night as his SM Conference, it still would not have been enough time.

 

As far as the Position of Responsibility, first, it's 4 months for Star, not 6. Second, it does not have to be the months immediately before the Board of review, it can be anytime after he earned First Class. This won't help him, but maybe it will help some other Scout in the troop. Finally, he really should have known the requirements for what positions count and which ones don't. He's almost 18 and didn't know? His advancement is his responsibility, not the troop's.

[urloony]

Update:

my appologies, I meant to say his BOR was for Life NOT Star.

[molscouter]

Then we're back to the question of what POR's he held as a Star Scout and for how long. If he was, say, Scribe for 6 months and then APL for 6 months, that should have counted. The BOR would have been wrong in denying him (assuming his performance was up to par) and maybe there are some grounds for appeal there. If all he had was APL, he has no shot.

 

It still goes back to him not taking responsibilty for his advancement. He should have gone to the SM and asked about the project option.

[OldGreyEagle]

AS a Life Scout with designs on Eagle, he should have known what were approved POR's when one was offered.

[urloony]

I ask the parent some of your follow-up questions.

This scout was assigned the Assistant Patrol leader position by his SM. He did not serve in any other position while he was a Star scout. Apparently in his troop, positions are assigned by the SM and not elected by the troop or patrol. The irony is this is done to make sure scouts get the positions they need for advancement. You don't think the SM has any responsibility for assigning the position and then signing off the POR in his handbook, only to be denied rank three months later at his BOR?

[molscouter]

Yes the SM should have known better. But the Scout should have known as well and told the SM that APL doesn't count. This is 17 year old young man who presumably wants to be an Eagle; he needs to know what the requirements are.

[SR540Beaver]

We walk the boys thru the process from Tenderfoot thru 1st Class with them having to take more responsibility thru each step of that process. Once he makes it to 1st Class, he has no reason NOT to understand the advancement process and his future rank advancement is in his hands. That isn't to say that he might not receive an occasional friendly reminder, but ultimately Eagle is his responsibility.

[scoutingagain]

One of the things I sometimes do at a COH is publicly ask an up and coming likely Eagle candidate what he needs to do to achieve the next rank. One characteristic of all the Eagle scouts I know of in the unit I serve is that when asked this question they all can rattle off exactly what they need to to do. ie. 2 more Eagle required MBs and complete service as PL or 1 more MB and 2 more hours of service work, etc.

 

This demonstrates to other scouts and more importantly their parents as to what kind of attention they need pay to the advancement process if Eagle is one of the scout's goals. Keep in mind for many it isn't.

 

I have to agree, at 17 I would expect a scout to know exactly what he needs to do to achieve rank if that's what he wants to do.

 

SA

[Eagle92]

I have to concur it's the Scout's responsibility to know and meet the requirement's. If something is not right, then HE needs to solve the situation.

 

One of the reasons I hate adult appointed positions is the above reason scouts can get left out of leadership PORs and leaders get blamed for it. And I admit I was breifly an adult in an adult run troop; didn't like the situation, but when you are getting a troop restarted, it sometimes needs a little help. Luckily after about 6-8 months, we got some trained youth to take over.

 

In ref to Scouting again, Whenever I meet a scout I always ask 'when are you gonna get __________?" They reply should be \, and usualy is " I need ____, _______, _____ MBs, and _______ Months for a BOR.? I jokingly give them a rough time, as a form of encouragement to get the ball rolling. It seems to help, especially with those Scouts I bug every time I see them.

 

One Scout did get me though. One of my favorite scouts, who I knew was getting close to Eagle, I was bugging by asking the usual question. He stated "I had my EBOR last nite and am now witing for national to approve. And I all I need to do is wait three months and I got my first palm."(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[emb021]

FWIW-

 

Its clearly stated in the requirements what positions count for ranks, as well as giving the option of the 'SM assigned leadership project'. There are some positions (APL and Bugler) that don't count.

 

The scout should have read the requirements.

 

 

As to the issue of assigned positions.

 

The SM Handbook and others speaks on how leadership positions should be handled. SPL and PL are elected. ASPL and PL are in many troops also elected (usually its the runner up for SPL & PL that gets those positions, or people run for them like you'd run for a position of VP in a club). All other positions are appointed, but they should be appointed by the SPL with SM approval.

 

 

[urloony]

Thank you all for the feedback. My feelings on this situation have changed from my initial reaction. I am in agreement that the scout needs to be aware of what is required of him for Eagle and that that responsibility lies solely with him. Does anyone know why APL is not considered a position of responsibility when many other "lesser" responsibilities are?

[urloony]

Actually emb021, from what is listed, Bugler does count as a POR, APL does not.

[Bob White]

When the Scout did not pass the board of review was he given a written explanation of what requirement was not completed and what he could do to complete it? If not then the troop committee did not follow the correct procedures. Had they been more concerned about the developmentg of the scout then of simply passing him or not passing him they would have talked with the Scoutmaster to get the scout a position or a project that would have allowed him to complete the rank in time to continue toward Eagle.

 

You will find the process that the board should have followed in the Advancement Committee policies and Procedures manual. If the committee can be convinced that they did not follow the required procedures then they could backdate the advancement and the scout could have still had time to work toward his Eagle. Unfortunately the scout stop participating.

 

So between the scouts choice to not be there and the adults not following the correct procedures the chances for the The scout to complete his Boy Scout carreer as an Eagle is very slim. He could still possible work out an agreement to complete his Life rank based on the boards error.

 

I wish him luck.

BW