"Honor System" for merit badge requirements

[JillKB]

If the troop has been working on a merit badge together (bicycling for example) and one of the boys has only gone on a couple of the rides... but says he should get credit anyway because he rides his bike all the time and he and his family have gone on lots of bike trails over the summer, etc., what should you do? My thought was that the merit badge counselor had final say and it would depend somewhat on the details the scout is able to provide plus knowing the general character of the scout.

 

But we were told at a scout training event recently that if a boy says he completed requirements then that was the final word. Since scouts are supposed to be "trustworthy", then we have to take his word for it in all situations. They told us this was "written, national BSA policy". Any thoughts and this and does anyone know exactly where this policy is written?

[Kahuna]

I don't think you'll find that written anywhere. As MB counselor, as far as I'm concerned, my word is final. In the example you gave, I think the counselor would be doing the right thing by asking some questions rather than just taking the Scout's word.

 

A Scout IS Trustworthy, but they've been known to fudge the details a bit at times.

[Eagle92]

One cycling MBC I know does the honor system for the smaller rides. But the last long one he organizes so that he is along with them. He say that you can really tell who is doing what they are supposed to or not on the final long ride.

[Lisabob]

Looking at the requirements, most have either "show" or "demonstrate" or "describe" included in them. Those need to be shown or demonstrated or described to the counselor's satisfaction, and that is entirely at the counselor's discretion. Requirement 6 explicitly states that the ride must take place with the counselor. The rides in requirements 8 and 9 include some very specific information too. Just because the kid rides his bike "all the time" around the neighborhood or something, that alone doesn't fulfill the requirement as written.

 

Whoever told you that once a kid says he did something, no questions can be asked, is blowing smoke. Ask this individual to show you exactly where that "written national BSA policy" can be found.

 

For myself, not to be too hard core, but I tend to follow the "trust, but verify" approach. Sometimes kids do not fully understand (or haven't fully read) a requirement. Sometimes they fudge things. Sometimes their parents push them to outright lie. A few questions won't hurt. If the kid did it, he'll be able to show, demonstrate, and describe. If he didn't, he may learn something in the process of talking about it, and then doing it right.

[shortridge]

Lisabob has the right approach with "trust but verify." It's in the Cycling requirements (since you provide that example) that the Scout has to provide specifics for the shorter rides. If there's something suspicious, the counselor can ask the parents. Simple enough.

 

However, there's nothing in the requirements that says a Scout has to go on a ride with other Scouts, or that it has to be a ride organized specifically for an MB "class." If the counselor says that's how the rides have to be done, he or she is adding to the requirements, which IS against policy.

[Bob White]

Jil, Unfortunately your were misinformed. The BSA Advacncement Policies and Procedures as well as the Merit Badge Councelor Orientation and Merit Badge Counselor instructions say that The counselor is reponsible for meetin the requirements as stated by the BSA nothing more, AND nothing less.

 

When as Scouts we promise to be trustwothy, it means that the responsibility is on us to be of honorable character. It is nort a mandate for others to trust us.

[IM_Kathy]

while it wasn't for the cycling merit badge - a couple of our MBC for other badges have requested photos, maps, and the like to show the boy performing such tasks as required for the badge. My son for example has been working on his Fishing Merit badge... at summer camp he did everything but actually catch his fish. So when he goes fishing and MBC is not present (either family trip or troop trip) we take the camera along and photograph it all. Now if he could catch something other than Blue Gill he'd have it done LOL

[Frank17]

It is up to the counselor to decide what level of "proof" they require to satisfy the criteria. The terms "show" or "demonstrate" or "describe" mean different things to different people, and can be satified in any number of ways: pictures, written documentationm, oral discussion, etc. The counselor decides which they want / need. For me, a picture is worth a 1000 words, and is easy documentation.

[Beavah]

Yah, JillKB, no such policy. Just another poorly informed trainer.

 

The cycling MB requirement requires the boy to make a report of each of the rides, including date, route, things seen, etc. I think if the boy submitted a good report and was able to talk through it, a counselor might accept that for some of the shorter rides.

 

Problem with "family rides" (yah, and "troop rides" too!) is that boys can be relyin' on others rather than actually fulfilling the expectations themselves. So if dad leads all the time in traffic, all that knowing and practicing the traffic laws and bicycle safety that the boy is supposed to be doin' gets shortchanged. So can the navigation and bike repairs.

 

So I expect most cycling MBC's would want to supervise or participate in at least a few of those rides.

 

Beavah

 

[asm 411]

I love cycling merit badge. It is so easy to verify requirements 8 and 9.

 

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8. Avoiding main highways, take two rides of 10 miles each, two rides of 15 miles each, and two rides of 25 miles each. You must make a report of the rides taken. List dates, routes traveled, and interesting things seen.

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So if the Scout can tell you the date, the route and interesting things then he has done the requirement. I had one Scout that did not like to write. Unlike hiking merit badge all the Scout has to do is report so he talked to me after each ride he did.

 

In the case of this thread for the Scout to say he did the rides with his family is plain not enough. He has to provide the details. Now it may be possible for him to sit down with his family calendar and family members and recall the information. In which case I would be satisfied. But the rides have to distinct and if he can not put routes, dates and distances together I would have repeat the requirements.

 

His family does a lot of cycling in the summer anyway so this should not be a big deal.

[SR540Beaver]

Everyone has given you good and correct information Jill. One of our more problematic MB's is the Snow Sports MB. I can't tell you the number of boys who are going skiing over Christmas break and come ask the SM if one of their parents can be the MBC for them for the MB. Nope. While it would be convenient, it bypasses the whole adult association aspect of MB's. Plus it creates an expectation to make exceptions for all sorts of other MB's.

[asm 411]

A bit off topic but the last post stirred up some memories.

 

Not sure if this was a troop rule when I was a Scout, 30 years ago, or not. In our troop the councilor for Home Repairs merit badge was the Scout's Dad.

 

This was one of my favorites because my Dad was not into Scouting at all. From his perspective driving us to and from any camp on the planet was good enough which I appreciated.

 

This merit badge gave me the opportunity to spend the better part of a Saturday with my Dad doing Scouts.